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<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=742402213-30062009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>I completely agree with this position.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=742402213-30062009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>In fact, the situation concerning sh and connex code
elements inside ISO 639 is more than exceptional.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=742402213-30062009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=742402213-30062009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>1-ISO recommendation R 639 (November 1967) includes the
code element "Sh" as symbol for the language (name) "Serbo-Croat/Serbo-croate",
having indexes "861/862", that is part of the slavonic language
family, inside the UDC (Universal Decimal Codification) and combination
"Sh/YU/" with the country (name) symbol concerning
Yugoslavia.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=742402213-30062009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=742402213-30062009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>2-ISO 639 standard (1988-04-01) includes, amonge
of its 136 initial alpha-2 code elements, the alpha-2 code element
"sh" for the representation of the language name
"Srpskohrvatski/serbo-croate/Serbo-Croatian", as well as "hr" for the language
name "Hrvatski/croate/Croatian" and "sr" for the language name
"Srpski/serbe/Serbian"..</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=742402213-30062009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>There is no entry concerning the language name
"Bosnian"</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=742402213-30062009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=742402213-30062009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>3-ISO 639-2 (1998-10-22), whose introduction writes "The
languages (names) listed in ISO 639-1are a subset of the languages
(names) listed in this part of ISO 639; every language code (element) in
the two letters code set has a corresponding language code (element) in the
alpha-3 list, but not necessarily vice-versa.", includes an
alpha-3 (binary) entry "scr/hrv" for the language name
"Croatian/croate", and also another (binary) alpha-3 entry "scc/srp" for the
language name "Serbian/serbe", but does not include any alpha-3 code element for
an entry language name "Serbo-Croatian/serbo-croate", so that the promiss
given inside ISO 639-2 introduction is not fulfilled concerning the ISO
639(-1) alpha-2 code element "sh" that has no alpha-3 ISO 639-2
counterpart. There is no entry concerning the language name
"Bosnian".</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=742402213-30062009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=742402213-30062009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>4-Between 1992 and 1993, four (Croatia, Slovenia,
Bosnia-Herzegovina and Macedonia) of the six Republics that were formerly
united inside the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia acquired
independance, became Member States of the United Nations and received alpha-2
ISO 3166-1 code elements.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=742402213-30062009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=742402213-30062009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>5-On 2000-02-18, ISO 639/RA-JAC decided to deprecate the
ISO 639(-1) alpha-2 code element "sh" "because there were separate language code
(elements) for each language (name) represented (Serbian, Croatian and then
Bosnian was added.).</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=742402213-30062009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=742402213-30062009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>6-On the same day, ISO 639/RA-JAC decided the addition of a
new alpha-2 code element "bo" inside ISO 639 and of a new alpha-3 code
element "bos" inside ISO 639-2 to represent the language name "Bosnian/
bosniaque" (along with the addition of 24 others entries inside ISO 639-2 on the
same day; but among them only "Sign languages" received only an alpha-3 ISO
639-2 code element "sgn" and no alpha-2 ISO 639-1 code
element).</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=742402213-30062009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=742402213-30062009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>7-Nevertheless, ISO 639-1 (2002-07-18) reintegrated the
alpha-2 code element "sh" representing the language name "srpskohrvatski
(jezik)/ serbo-croate/ Serbo-Croatian)" as an entry, along with the three others
code elements "bs", "hr" and "sr" for representing respectively the
three language names "bosanski (jezik)/ bosniaque/ Bosnian", "hrvatski
jezik/ croate/ Croatian" and "srpski (jezik)/ serbe/
Serbian".</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=742402213-30062009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=742402213-30062009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>8-On 2005-YY-XX, after this reintegration inside ISO 639-1,
the language name "Serbo-Croat" was never included as a new entry inside ISO
639-2, and in 2005 (no more precise datation given) the ISO 639/RA-JAC decided
to "reaffirm the deprecated status of "sh" inside ISO 639-1</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=742402213-30062009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=742402213-30062009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>9-ISO 639-3 (2007-02-05) includes the
following entries "bos" (Bosnian), "hbs" (Serbo-Croatian, explicitely
linked to "sh" [deprecated]), "hrv" (Croatian), "srp" (Serbian), as well
as "mkd" (Macedonian, with also "mk" [and CDU index 866 inside the slavic
language family]already inside ISO 639: 1988) and "slv" (Slovenian, with also
CDU index 863 inside the slavic language family] already inside ISO 639: 1988;
moreover, the language name "Slovenian" has the symbol "Sn" and the
combination "Sn/YU" inside ISO R 639 (1967). </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=742402213-30062009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=742402213-30062009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>10-On 2008-04-07, the Croatian National and University
Library, the Croatian Standard Institute, the National Library of Serbia and the
Institute for Standardization of Serbia jointly wrote a letter to the ISO 639-2
Registration Authority and to the ISO Central Secretary to explain that
the alpha-3 ISO 6392/B code elements "scr" and "scc", that were abreviations for
"Serbo-Croatian written in Roman alphabet" and "Serbo-Croatian written in
cyrillic alphabet" should no more be used and that the corresponding alpha-3 ISO
639-2/T code elements "hrv" and "srp" should replace them to represent
respectively the Serbian and Croatian language names inside ISO
639-2.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=742402213-30062009></SPAN><SPAN
class=742402213-30062009></SPAN><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT
size=2>O<SPAN class=742402213-30062009>n 2008-06-28, ISO 639/RA-JAC accepted
this claim and decided to deprecate "scc" and "scr" respectively in favor of
"hrv" and "srp".</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=742402213-30062009></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=742402213-30062009>11-ISO 639-5 (2008-05-15) includes the entry "sla",
that an alpha-3 ISO 639-5 code element to represent the family language
name "Slavic languages (remainder group)", that is under the hierarchy of the
alpha-3 ISO 639-5 code element "ine" to represent the family language name
"Indo-European (remainder
group)." </SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=742402213-30062009></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=742402213-30062009>Bien cordialement.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=742402213-30062009>Gérard LANG </SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=fr dir=ltr align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>De :</B> ietf-languages-bounces@alvestrand.no
[mailto:ietf-languages-bounces@alvestrand.no] <B>De la part de</B> Mark Davis
?<BR><B>Envoyé :</B> lundi 29 juin 2009 23:36<BR><B>À :</B> John
Cowan<BR><B>Cc :</B> ietf-languages@iana.org;
ISO639-3@sil.org<BR><B>Objet :</B> Re: Anomaly in upcoming
registry<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>Good point; the target for 639-1/2 is different, and the threshold
for deprecation is different. And given this conversation, I think it is
pretty clear that we should un-deprecate sh in the registry; we are following
639-3 in not being restrictive about the codes we add (understatement) to the
registry, they considered the issue of deprecating hbs (=sh) and decided not
to, so we should follow their lead.<BR><BR clear=all>Mark<BR><BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 13:22, John Cowan <SPAN
dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:cowan@ccil.org">cowan@ccil.org</A>></SPAN>
wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">Mark
Davis â?? scripsit:<BR>
<DIV class=im><BR>> hbs = sh, yet<BR>> hbs is not Deprecated,
and<BR>> sh is Deprecated<BR><BR></DIV>It's actually worse than that.
hbs in 639-2 is deprecated ("retired"),<BR>but hbs in 639-3 is not
deprecated.<BR>
<DIV class=im><BR>> We could take ISO 639-3 as superseding 639-1 on the
issue of deprecation,<BR>> and I think that would be the right thing to
do. However, it would be<BR>> cleaner yet if ISO 639-1 were to
un-deprecate sh, so that it was consistent<BR>> with ISO
639-3.<BR><BR></DIV>For "639-1" read "639-1 and 639-2". But there's a
policy question here:<BR>coding a language in -1 or -2 is a policy decision,
not merely a technical<BR>one: it involves an explicit value judgement on
which languages are considered<BR>important enough to get -1 codes or
membership in the -2 set. The various RAs<BR>reserve the right, it
seems to me, to change their minds about this (as we<BR>reserve the right to
ignore it when they remove codes).<BR><FONT color=#888888><BR>--<BR>My
corporate data's a mess!
John Cowan<BR>It's all semi-structured, no less.
<A
href="http://www.ccil.org/%7Ecowan"
target=_blank>http://www.ccil.org/~cowan</A><BR> But I'll be
carefree
<A
href="mailto:cowan@ccil.org">cowan@ccil.org</A><BR> Using
XSLT<BR>On an XML
DBMS.<BR></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>