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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>RFC 4646 supports your timeline. I note that Michael did not
explicitly extend the discussion period and he did explicitly approve one
request, although that appears to have been retracted (explicit approval,
rejection, or extension of the timeline is required by the RFC)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>In any event, what I’m concerned with is that the current rules
suggest that on 8 September Michael will reject the R3 form (assuming for a
moment that we all decide that zh-Latn should be the prefix) and we’ll get Yet
Another Two Week Review Period. I am also pointing out that if this is not the
record that Mark wants, he should submit that record so that the debate and any
LSR actions are appropriately focused. The sooner Mark submits the record he
would like to have, the sooner the two weeks expire and Michael can
approve/reject/extend. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>In the past, we have not adhered to the two-weeks per specific version
of the form when modifying the original request, on the theory that the request
is still requesting the “same thing” (we’re just editing the form a bit to
address comments). By that logic, Michael could approve R3 at any time (the
same would apply to an R4 or whatever), since the original two weeks is long
past and the revised form has been debated for awhile. Draft-4646bis was
modified specifically to allow refreshes of the request to address comments
without resetting the two-week clock. Once we are under the new document’s
auspices, the timeline below would not apply: the final form requires a
one-week appearance on the list before submission and modified requests do not
reset the clock. I think that’s actually a good thing. Those rules changes were
put into the draft to specifically address the inflexibility of the process in
the past when it came to correcting non-material or ancillary changes to the
form (to achieve rule compliance, etc.). <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>On a separate note, I’m trying to ascertain what Michael will
approve and what is acceptable to Mark (and the community as well). I would
happily support a prefix of ‘zh-Latn’, because that is sensible. I also support
a prefix of ‘zh’ because some people will treat the registry prefix information
as normative (improperly) and the possibility exists of tagging that uses the
transcription subtags without a script. But I would be okay with only having a
prefix of ‘zh-Latn’. It makes sense to have that prefix regardless of any other
prefixes. But Michael can’t approve what we’re discussing now because it hasn’t
been requested (or, more properly, it isn’t the *<b>current</b>* request).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Addison<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Addison Phillips<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Globalization Architect -- Lab126</span><span style='font-size:
9.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Internationalization is not a feature.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>It is an architecture.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Peter Constable
[mailto:petercon@microsoft.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, September 04, 2008 9:18 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Phillips, Addison; Michael Everson; ietflang IETF Languages
Discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRATION FORM (R3): pinyin<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Well, on July 30 and then again on Aug 2, Mark submitted forms
that had “zh-Latn”. On Aug 25 Mark submitted forms with “zh” and on Aug 26
Michael said “I approve”. It is not yet two weeks since the submission of forms
with “zh” – the mandatory review period extends to Sept 8; so it would be
premature for Michael to have already approved the requests submitted on Aug
25. If those are already being processed with IANA, then I think there are
valid grounds for objection – and I would object.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Peter<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
ietf-languages-bounces@alvestrand.no
[mailto:ietf-languages-bounces@alvestrand.no] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Phillips,
Addison<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, September 04, 2008 7:59 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Michael Everson; ietflang IETF Languages Discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRATION FORM (R3): pinyin<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I’m confused here.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>On August 26<sup>th</sup> Michael approved both pinyin and
wadegile as subtags. I specifically asked if this was formal approval and he
replied that it was, in fact, formal approval.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I would assume that he approved the then current registration
request, but I gather that the Prefix field subsequently caused him to
reconsider. Mark later that day submitted the current “R3” form.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Michael, do you NOT approve of the R3 form—the one we are
currently considering, which contains only the prefix ‘zh’? Would you approve
of one that includes both Prefix fields? Mark, are you withdrawing the R3
request in favor of a zh-latn request? If so, you should do so now, because
Michael can only (as I understand the rules) pronounce on a submitted request…
and that is the request currently being considered. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I also note that one course of action is specifically
prohibited: the prefix ‘zh’ cannot be *<b>replaced</b>* with the prefix
‘zh-latn’ (a narrowing). It can be supplemented with an additional prefix
‘zh-Latn’ (or ‘cmn-*’), but it can’t be replaced.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Addison<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Addison Phillips<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Globalization Architect -- Lab126<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Internationalization is not a feature.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>It is an architecture.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
ietf-languages-bounces@alvestrand.no
[mailto:ietf-languages-bounces@alvestrand.no] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Michael
Everson<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, September 04, 2008 1:43 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> ietflang IETF Languages Discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRATION FORM (R3): pinyin<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>On 4 Sep 2008, at 01:21, Peter Constable wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><span style='font-size:10.5pt;
color:#144FAE'>As you say, he may reject something based on a single *<b>compelling</b>*
opinion, and that may happen to be his own; but IMO he must use that veto
ability very carefully so as to avoid conflict of interest: if indeed he alone voices
an objecting opinion against several others on the list, it would need to be
compelling indeed! The issue he raises in this case is, IMO, far from
compelling.</span></span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>The issue? Peter, please be clear when you write. Which
issue? "The issue" I raised is that "pinyin" and
"wadegile" are by default Latin because there are no other
possiblities of interpretation. Is that "the issue" to which you
refer? Because I don't believe you have demonstrated that what I have said is
incorrect. Nor have you demonstrated how your position (that "Latn"
must be included) is "compelling".<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><span style='font-size:10.5pt;
font-family:"-webkit-monospace","serif";color:black'>Michael Everson * <a
href="http://www.evertype.com/">http://www.evertype.com</a></span></span><span
style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Everson Mono","serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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