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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>*<b>In his capacity as LSTR</b>*, Michael should be able to unilaterally
decide to approve or not approve a registration request based on whether he
feels issues related to the request have been adequately discuss and a
consensus formed.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>In relation to discussing issues related to a request and forming
a consensus, Michael acts as just another voice in the discussion, not as LSTR,
and his opinion should carry no more or less weight than anybody else’s. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>As you say, he may reject something based on a single *<b>compelling</b>*
opinion, and that may happen to be his own; but IMO he must use that veto
ability very carefully so as to avoid conflict of interest: if indeed he alone voices
an objecting opinion against several others on the list, it would need to be
compelling indeed! The issue he raises in this case is, IMO, far from
compelling.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Peter<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Phillips, Addison
[mailto:addison@amazon.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, September 03, 2008 11:58 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Peter Constable; Mark Davis; Tracey, Niall<br>
<b>Cc:</b> ietf-languages@iana.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRATION FORM (R3): pinyin<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>As I understand it, his is the deciding opinion. As has been
stated many times, this list is not a voting booth.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>In particular, Michael can decide to approve or not approve a
given registration request. He (or others) may propose a modified request for
his approval during the “two week discussion period”, but he can only approve
or disapprove of the mooted request. He *<b>may</b>* decide it based on “rough
consensus” (the usual IETF policy), but he *<b>may</b>* also reject it based on
even a single compelling opinion (which may be his own opinion, so long as it
is clearly expressed on the list). There is an appeals process for cases in
which people feel that Michael has been capricious in approving or rejecting an
item.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>FWIW, I prefer having both ‘zh’ and ‘zh-Latn’ as prefix fields.
I don’t see any objection to approving these items, just to the final record
form.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I also note: if ‘zh’ is given as a prefix now, ‘zh-latn’ can be
added later. The converse is *<b>also</b>* true.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Addison<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Addison Phillips<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Globalization Architect -- Lab126<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Internationalization is not a feature.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>It is an architecture.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
ietf-languages-bounces@alvestrand.no [mailto:ietf-languages-bounces@alvestrand.no]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Peter Constable<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, September 03, 2008 11:50 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Mark Davis; Tracey, Niall<br>
<b>Cc:</b> ietf-languages@iana.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRATION FORM (R3): pinyin<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Mark, Michael shouldn’t be making unilateral decisions; his is
only one opinion. If the majority opinion is that “zh-Latn” is better, then
that’s what he should approve.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Peter<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
mark.edward.davis@gmail.com [mailto:mark.edward.davis@gmail.com] <b>On Behalf
Of </b>Mark Davis<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, September 03, 2008 9:52 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Tracey, Niall<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Peter Constable; ietf-languages@iana.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRATION FORM (R3): pinyin<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>As I said, I have no objection
at all to making the prefix be zh-Latn instead of just zh; I would prefer it.
It is Michael Everson who wanted "zh" instead, so perhaps you should
address him on this topic.<br>
<br>
(For my part, I think it is more important to have the subtag registered -- and
not have this drag out forever -- than for the subtag's Prefix to be perfect;
in practice people will use Latn as a prefix anyway.)<br>
<br clear=all>
Mark<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>On Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 8:53 AM, Tracey, Niall <<a
href="mailto:niall.tracey@logica.com">niall.tracey@logica.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>We all know that new tags don't gain sudden acceptance overnight.
It would be one thing if there was a suppress-script for subtags -- in that
case systems could update themselves automatically. As it is, that script
information is in the free-text fields and requires human intervention to
insert into systems, so it's going to be a while coming. In legacy systems, it
may never happen.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>If we issue advice saying that the text should be tagged
zh-Latn-wadegile, it will be rendered correctly by all properly-written
software systems.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>If we tell people that zh-wadegile is enough, more of
them will tag text as such and systems will attempt to render it in Hanji.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>Izh-Latn-wadegile is surely the only fault-tolerant
(userproof?) option.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>Shouldn't we build fault-tolerance in at every level?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>Níall.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <a
href="mailto:ietf-languages-bounces@alvestrand.no" target="_blank">ietf-languages-bounces@alvestrand.no</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:ietf-languages-bounces@alvestrand.no" target="_blank">ietf-languages-bounces@alvestrand.no</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Mark Davis<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 03 September 2008 16:35<br>
<b>To:</b> Peter Constable<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:ietf-languages@iana.org" target="_blank">ietf-languages@iana.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRATION FORM (R3): pinyin<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>While I share that opinion,
there were others that objected to it. And I can live with the required prefix
being only zh; I think that reasonable implementations will also include Latn
anyway.<br>
<br clear=all>
Mark<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>On Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 7:00 AM, Peter Constable <<a
href="mailto:petercon@microsoft.com" target="_blank">petercon@microsoft.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>From: <a href="mailto:ietf-languages-bounces@alvestrand.no"
target="_blank">ietf-languages-bounces@alvestrand.no</a> [mailto:<a
href="mailto:ietf-languages-bounces@alvestrand.no" target="_blank">ietf-languages-bounces@alvestrand.no</a>]
On Behalf Of Doug Ewell<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
> Here are the proposed new records and registration forms, for a two-week<br>
> review period. (Sorry, guys: RFC 4646, Section 3.7.) Eligible
to be<br>
> added Wednesday, September 9 at 3:00 UTC, unless someone objects or<br>
> finds a problem.<br>
><br>
> ===<br>
><br>
> LANGUAGE SUBTAG MODIFICATION<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal>...<br>
<br>
> Prefix: zh<br>
<br>
IMO this should be "zh-Latn".<br>
<br>
More generally, it has always been my opinion that variant subtags denoting a
particular written form should always be prefixed by a script subtag except
when Suppress-Script applies.<br>
<span style='color:#888888'><br>
<br>
<br>
Peter</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>
Ietf-languages mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Ietf-languages@alvestrand.no" target="_blank">Ietf-languages@alvestrand.no</a><br>
<a href="http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/listinfo/ietf-languages"
target="_blank">http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/listinfo/ietf-languages</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><br clear=all>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal>This e-mail and any attachment is for authorised use by the
intended recipient(s) only. It may contain proprietary material, confidential
information and/or be subject to legal privilege. It should not be copied,
disclosed to, retained or used by, any other party. If you are not an intended
recipient then please promptly delete this e-mail and any attachment and all
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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