Ideally, we'd be able to come to consensus on a uniform approach, and recommend to the LTRU group to put in a line documenting that.<br><br>Mark<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 1:34 PM, Peter Constable <<a href="mailto:petercon@microsoft.com">petercon@microsoft.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
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<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Some clarifications wrt my specific application scenario: the strings
are not intended to be presented to users as a fallback, they are intended for
programmatic usage. That said, some application could still choose to use this
form of the font-family name to present to users as a fallback.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">So, we still have three sets of opinion on how to tag. Let me ask
a different question: do people think there should be a single convention to be
used for the kind of scenario I've described, or should the be left to be
determined by application developers?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Peter</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
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<p><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> <a href="mailto:ietf-languages-bounces@alvestrand.no" target="_blank">ietf-languages-bounces@alvestrand.no</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:ietf-languages-bounces@alvestrand.no" target="_blank">ietf-languages-bounces@alvestrand.no</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Mark Davis<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, March 17, 2008 1:16 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Randy Presuhn<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:ietf-languages@iana.org" target="_blank">ietf-languages@iana.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: ID for language-invariant strings</span></p>
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</div><div><div></div><div class="Wj3C7c">
<p> </p>
<p>I agree with you that<br>
<br>
> However, for most of the examples it seems disingenuous to claim the<br>
> data is not linguistic in nature. These are cases where we have
stuff<br>
> that clearly *is* language in that in conveys meaning, but it doesn't
entirely<br>
> "play by the rules" that apply to material that is *in* a
particular<br>
> language....<br>
<br>
This is different from where I have a part number, or an internal code like
"zh", where having the language value be "No linguistic
content" is perfectly fine.<br>
<br>
<br>
> "und" seems wrong to me - it's not that we aren't able to figure
out<br>
> what language this stuff is "in".<br>
<br>
I disagree about 'und'. I don't like a proliferation of codes where one works
fine.<br>
<br>
<br>
Type: language<br>
Subtag: und<br>
Description: Undetermined<br>
Added: 2005-10-16<br>
<br>
"und" means "undetermined". Not "cannot figure out
what language this stuff is in", not "cannot be determined",
just "undetermined". That is about as neutral as you can be.<br>
<br>
If I have a language-neutral string like "Arial", that is to be presented
to users as the name of a font, it certainly has linguistic content. It is not
an arbitrary part number like SN305-SV, is not being presented as an internal
code; it is being presented to users as a fallback name, in case there is no
translation/transliteration into the user's language. I don't see how it is
inappropriate to say that the language value is Undetermined.<br>
<br>
Mark</p>
</div></div></div>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Mark