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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>If “zxx” were “not applicable”, I would not have any reservation
about semantic overloading for the application scenarios I have in mind now. Funny,
I really have no recollection of you suggesting that at that time. (Sorry.)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Peter<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
Karen_Broome@spe.sony.com [mailto:Karen_Broome@spe.sony.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, March 14, 2008 12:51 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Peter Constable<br>
<b>Cc:</b> ietf-languages@iana.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: ID for language-invariant strings<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I can keep
restating the point I've made from the beginning. The semantic for
"zxx" should have been defined as "not applicable" which
was the use case presented at the time it was created. Since it was not
expressed in this way, now we need another tag, I think.</span> <br>
<br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Regards,</span>
<br>
<br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Karen Broome<br>
Metadata Systems Designer<br>
Sony Pictures Entertainment<br>
310.244.4384</span> <br>
<br>
<tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>ietf-languages-bounces@alvestrand.no wrote
on 03/14/2008 08:49:31 AM:</span></tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'><br>
<br>
<tt>> > From: ietf-languages-bounces@alvestrand.no
[mailto:ietf-languages-</tt><br>
<tt>> > bounces@alvestrand.no] On Behalf Of Doug Ewell</tt><br>
<tt>> > Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 11:16 PM</tt><br>
<tt>> > To: ietf-languages@iana.org</tt><br>
<tt>> > Subject: Re: ID for language-invariant strings</tt><br>
<tt>> </tt><br>
<tt>> > ["zxx" is] a "less bad" fit than the other
choices:</tt><br>
<tt>> ></tt><br>
<tt>> > zxx - content is not linguistic in nature</tt><br>
<tt>> > und - content is in an undetermined language</tt><br>
<tt>> > mis - content is in an otherwise uncoded language</tt><br>
<tt>> > i-default - content is in a default, fallback language
intelligible to</tt><br>
<tt>> > anglophones</tt><br>
<tt>> ></tt><br>
<tt>> > I agree that inventing a new code element/subtag for this
situation</tt><br>
<tt>> > would be undesirable.</tt><br>
<tt>> </tt><br>
<tt>> If it's less bad, I still think it kind of bad.</tt><br>
<tt>> </tt><br>
<tt>> For instance, suppose I need to apply language tags to each of the </tt><br>
<tt>> data elements in the main ISO 639-3 code table. For data in columns </tt><br>
<tt>> like the 639-3 ID, clearly "zxx" applies: the alpha-3
identifiers </tt><br>
<tt>> have no linguistic content. But what about the reference names? </tt><br>
<tt>> "zxx" would be a decidedly bad choice for that column, IMO,
since </tt><br>
<tt>> every single data element is definitely linguistic in nature.</tt><br>
<tt>> </tt><br>
<tt>> I don't know why people are so adverse to new special-purpose code </tt><br>
<tt>> elements when there is a reasonable need. It's not like there are a </tt><br>
<tt>> lot of different special-case semantics that are needed in language-</tt><br>
<tt>> tagging application scenarios; I think the set is very small, </tt><br>
<tt>> perhaps even that this is the only important gap. I am *far* more </tt><br>
<tt>> concerned about overloading tags with distinct, orthogonal semantics</tt><br>
<tt>> for particular application scenarios ("und" means X in this </tt><br>
<tt>> application but Y in that application): *that* can lead to serious
trouble.</tt><br>
<tt>> </tt><br>
<tt>> As I think about this, I'm inclined to propose a new special-purpose</tt><br>
<tt>> ID "zrf" in ISO 639:</tt><br>
<tt>> </tt><br>
<tt>> ID: zxn</tt><br>
<tt>> Reference name: language-neutral content</tt><br>
<tt>> Comment: This ID is provided primarily for application scenarios</tt><br>
<tt>> in which a language identifier must
be declared for</tt><br>
<tt>> content that may be linguistic in
nature but that is</tt><br>
<tt>> used as a language-neutral
identifier to reference or</tt><br>
<tt>> index other information objects.</tt><br>
<tt>> </tt><br>
<tt>> Uses of this code element do not
make any declaration</tt><br>
<tt>> regarding the actual language of a
given data element</tt><br>
<tt>> or of whether a given data element
is, in fact,</tt><br>
<tt>> linguistic in nature.</tt><br>
<tt>> </tt><br>
<tt>> Note: for applications scenarios in
which an identifier</tt><br>
<tt>> string is unambiguously non-linguistic
in nature, "zxx"</tt><br>
<tt>> should be used rather than
"zxn".</tt><br>
<tt>> </tt><br>
<tt>> For example, in a database of coding
elements for</tt><br>
<tt>> cultural objects that includes for
each such object a</tt><br>
<tt>> code element such as an alpha-3
string (e.g., "abc")</tt><br>
<tt>> and a reference name (e.g.,
"PIANO", "GUQIN"), the</tt><br>
<tt>> language identifier applied to the
code element</tt><br>
<tt>> should be "zxx",but
"zxn" may be applied to the</tt><br>
<tt>> reference names.</tt><br>
<tt>> </tt><br>
<tt>> Applications may also use
"zxn" for content that is</tt><br>
<tt>> Linguistic in nature but that is
represented in a</tt><br>
<tt>> Language-neutral form. For example,
the concept 'ten'</tt><br>
<tt>> Is linguistic in nature but can be
expressed in the</tt><br>
<tt>> Language-neutral form
"10". Such use of "zxn" should</tt><br>
<tt>> be considered only for application
scenarios that</tt><br>
<tt>> have a particular need; this usage
is not recommended</tt><br>
<tt>> in general. For instance, if a
software application</tt><br>
<tt>> needs to segment the strings in a
document into items</tt><br>
<tt>> that get passed to various
language-specific processes</tt><br>
<tt>> and it must apply a language
identifier to language-</tt><br>
<tt>> neutral content such as numbers
represented as digits,</tt><br>
<tt>> then "zxn" may be used
within that application; but it</tt><br>
<tt>> is not expected that content authors
would apply "zxn"</tt><br>
<tt>> to numbers in their documents in
general.</tt><br>
<tt>> </tt><br>
<tt>> </tt><br>
<tt>> </tt><br>
<tt>> Peter</tt><br>
<tt>> _______________________________________________</tt><br>
<tt>> Ietf-languages mailing list</tt><br>
<tt>> Ietf-languages@alvestrand.no</tt><br>
<tt>> http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/listinfo/ietf-languages</tt></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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