<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Caoimhin,</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">I don't think what I'm seeing referred
to as Standard Scottish English is what you're referencing below. I don't
see it mentioned as a "business dialect". Do you have a link
where this is described?</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">All,</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Keep in mind: This is not abstract.
I have a specific business need and that semantic is best represented by
a region. As previously noted, I'll accept a classification of Standard
Scottish English, but I don't think this will be as accurate for what I'm
trying to classify as "Scottish English." A region tag would
cover any Scottish dialect of English found in the film and that's the
reality of this situation. </font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Films flagged with the Scottish English
tag would be more likely candidates for subtitles or redubbing than other
English variants, and the audience for these films would be different.
I need a tag so users will pull the right product from an online retailer,
distributors will send the right product, the right language track is played
on a DVD containing multiple audio tracks, video-on-demand will push the
right film based on user preferences, we can accurately identify these
items in a large archive used to create derivative works and additional
versions -- and existing XML formats can effortlessly express all these
variations.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">To be honest, with so much documentation
on the Web, a real-life use case, and a set of ears, I can't believe there
is so much controversy over the legitimacy of my request. I would
think the controversy would be over the best way to represent this linguistic
entity as there's no way other than a variant tag in RFC 4646 and it seems
like there should be. I will need to employ a private use tag if this request
is not granted and whatever the resulting tag is, I will need to encourage
this use throughout the entertainment industry. If spelling matters in
written contexts, surely accents matter in spoken contexts -- even if no
differences in word choice existed. </font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">English is a language and Scotland is
a well-defined region. There is no controversy about these two statements
-- why is there so much controversy over putting the two together? Isn't
this what the variant tag is for?</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Regards,</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Karen Broome<br>
Metadata Systems Designer<br>
Sony Pictures Entertainment<br>
</font>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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<td width=40%><font size=1 face="sans-serif"><b>Caoimhin O Donnaile <caoimhin@smo.uhi.ac.uk></b>
</font>
<br><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Sent by: ietf-languages-bounces@alvestrand.no</font>
<p><font size=1 face="sans-serif">08/21/2007 05:39 PM</font>
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<div align=right><font size=1 face="sans-serif">To</font></div>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Michael Everson <everson@evertype.com></font>
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<div align=right><font size=1 face="sans-serif">cc</font></div>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif">IETF Languages Discussion <ietf-languages@iana.org></font>
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<div align=right><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Subject</font></div>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Re: Scottish English (was: LANGUAGE
SUBTAG REGISTRATION FORM)</font></table>
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<br><tt><font size=2>> >But Scottish English is clear and well-defined
enough as a variety <br>
> >to be worth registering.<br>
> <br>
> Where and how is it defined?<br>
<br>
I don't know. Since everything is a continuum between "English",<br>
"Scottish English" and "Scots", not to mention the
regional<br>
variations, any definition would have to be somewhat arbitrary.<br>
<br>
I am sure, though, that if you did a cluster analysis of English speech<br>
throughout Great Britain (having first eliminated anything which you<br>
wished to classify as "Scots"), English speech in Scotland would<br>
form a distinctive enough cluster to be worth giving a name to.<br>
And indeed if you search with Google for "Scottish-English Scots"<br>
you get 220,000 hits, showing that "Scottish English" is very<br>
often used as a linguistic term. I expect the same kind of problem<br>
would arise with most variant tags which people wish to register, apart
<br>
from those relating to orthographic standards and suchlike.<br>
<br>
If we wanted to attempt to pin down some kind of demarcation lines<br>
at this stage, Derrick McLure at Aberdeen University would be a<br>
good contact.<br>
<br>
> Does "Scottish English" include Glasgow, Edinburgh, Aberdeen,
and <br>
> Inverness equally?<br>
<br>
It would certainly include Glasgow, Edinburgh and Inverness. I have<br>
never been to Aberdeen, but I expect that a fair bit of the speech<br>
on the streets o Aiberdeen would be classed as Scots - more so than<br>
in the other Scottish cities.<br>
<br>
After thinking about it, I share Michael's view that "en-scottish"<br>
would be better than an obscure M.49 code, even if one were possible.<br>
<br>
There was some talk of defining "en-scottish" to be "Standard<br>
Scottish English" rather than "Scottish English". I
think that<br>
would be a bad idea. If I understand things, the archetype of<br>
Standard Scottish English would be the English which educated<br>
Scottish businessmen would aspire to use among themselves, which<br>
would probably exclude a lot of the language in the Glasgow films<br>
which Karen needs to catalogue.<br>
<br>
Contrast:<br>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRXfF2sH0aU<br>
<br>
with:<br>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wPf6xR4RTA<br>
<br>
There is a fair difference between the language in each, I think.<br>
Part of it may be that when confronted with a reporter from<br>
BBC Scotland speaking something like Scottish Standard English,<br>
John Smeaton attempts to match his language to hers.<br>
<br>
Caoimhín<br>
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