<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Peter,</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">I'm not quite sure your take on this
represents what was on my ISO application. The application draws attention
to other regions where Alemanic dialects can be found (see: "addinfo"
section). I believe the French name typically indicates a broader range
of dialects as well:</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="Courier New">> > This data was submitted on:
Wednesday, June 15, 2005 at 19:08:00<br>
> > <br>
> > lang_in_eng = Swiss German, Alemanic<br>
> > lang_in_fre = alémanique<br>
> > ref_where_found_1 = http://www.ethnologue.com<br>
> > lang_in_vern = Schwyzerdütsch, Schweizerdeutsch, Schwiizerdütsch,
<br>
> Schwyzertütsch, Schwizertitsch<br>
> > ref_where_found_2 = ISO 639-3 DIS, http://www.ethnologue.com,
http://www.wikipedia.com<br>
> > trans_lit = <br>
> > evidence = AGICOA, the Association of International Collective
<br>
> Management of Audiovisual Works (Association de Gestion Internationale
<br>
> Collective des Oeuvres Audiovisuelles); 428 documents (audiovisual)<br>
> > <br>
> > http://www.agicoa.org<br>
> > addinfo = 4,215,000 in Switzerland (1990 census). Population
total all <br>
> countries: 6,044,000. Central, south central, north central, northeast,
<br>
> and eastern cantons. Also spoken in Austria, France, Germany, <br>
> Liechtenstein.<br>
</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Regards,</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Karen Broome<br>
Metadata Systems Designer<br>
Sony Pictures Entertainment<br>
310.244.4384</font>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<table width=100%>
<tr valign=top>
<td width=40%><font size=1 face="sans-serif"><b>Peter Constable <petercon@microsoft.com></b>
</font>
<br><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Sent by: ietf-languages-bounces@alvestrand.no</font>
<p><font size=1 face="sans-serif">11/30/2006 02:59 PM</font>
<td width=59%>
<table width=100%>
<tr valign=top>
<td>
<div align=right><font size=1 face="sans-serif">To</font></div>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Mark Davis <mark.davis@icu-project.org></font>
<tr valign=top>
<td>
<div align=right><font size=1 face="sans-serif">cc</font></div>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif">LTRU Working Group <ltru@ietf.org>,
zaiitov@gmail.com, iso639-2@loc.gov, Håvard Hjulstad <HHj@standard.no>,
ISO 639 Joint Advisory Committee <ISOJAC@loc.gov>, ietf-languages@iana.org,
iso639@dkuug.dk</font>
<tr valign=top>
<td>
<div align=right><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Subject</font></div>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif">RE: [Ltru] Alemanic & Swiss German</font></table>
<br>
<table>
<tr valign=top>
<td>
<td></table>
<br></table>
<br>
<br>
<br><font size=2 color=blue face="Verdana">I can tell you that the intent
of “gsw” is specifically Swiss German, and that the assumption of having
“Alemanic” listed as a name is that some people use that label to refer
to specifically to Swiss German. If the latter assumption is incorrect
(which appears to be what Mark is saying, then that is a change that the
JAC should consider.</font>
<p><font size=2 color=blue face="Verdana"> </font>
<p><font size=2 color=blue face="Verdana">But if Martin’s comment is the
supporting evidence, then I still find Martin’s comment to be unclear.
It’s clear to me what Mark is saying; it’s not clear to me if Martin
is saying the same thing.</font>
<p><font size=2 color=blue face="Verdana"> </font>
<p><font size=2 color=blue face="Verdana"> </font>
<p><font size=2 color=blue face="Verdana">Peter Constable</font>
<p><font size=2 color=blue face="Verdana"> </font>
<p><font size=2 color=blue face="Verdana"> </font>
<p><font size=2 color=blue face="Verdana"> </font>
<div align=center>
<p>
<hr></div>
<p><font size=2 face="Tahoma"><b>From:</b> mark.edward.davis@gmail.com
[mailto:mark.edward.davis@gmail.com] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Mark Davis<b><br>
Sent:</b> Thursday, November 30, 2006 11:07 AM<b><br>
To:</b> Peter Constable<b><br>
Cc:</b> Håvard Hjulstad; iso639-2@loc.gov; LTRU Working Group; zaiitov@gmail.com;
ISO 639 Joint Advisory Committee; ietf-languages@iana.org; iso639@dkuug.dk<b><br>
Subject:</b> Re: [Ltru] Alemanic & Swiss German</font>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">Alemanic refers to a broader group
of dialects than "Swiss German" (aka Schwyzertuesch) does. So
listing them as it does is problematic; it's like listing<br>
<br>
ar Arabic; Egyptian Arabic<br>
<br>
Personally, I don't care whether it is resolved to be <br>
<br>
Alemanic (including Swiss German) <br>
// which is what 639-3 seems to be pointing to<br>
<br>
or<br>
<br>
Swiss German (a particular variant of Alemanic)<br>
// which is what the code (gsw) seems to be pointing to<br>
<br>
But we need some clarity as to what is meant by the code. <br>
<br>
Mark</font>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">On 11/30/06, <b>Peter Constable</b>
<</font><a href=mailto:petercon@microsoft.com><font size=3 color=blue face="Times New Roman"><u>petercon@microsoft.com</u></font></a><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">>
wrote:</font>
<p><font size=2 color=blue face="Verdana">Martin's comment is somewhat
vague: varieties spoken on either side of the border are very similar,
et "as soon as you cross the border it's very clearly no longer Swiss
German". Does that mean that what is spoken across the border is clearly
a different language, or that the label "Swiss German" is clearly
not used?</font>
<p><font size=2 color=blue face="Verdana"> </font>
<p><font size=2 color=blue face="Verdana"> </font>
<p><font size=2 color=blue face="Verdana">Peter</font>
<p><font size=2 color=blue face="Verdana"> </font>
<div align=center>
<p>
<hr></div>
<p><font size=2 face="Tahoma"><b>From:</b> Mark Davis [mailto:</font><a href="mailto:mark.davis@icu-project.org" target=_blank><font size=2 color=blue face="Tahoma"><u>mark.davis@icu-project.org</u></font></a><font size=2 face="Tahoma">]
<b><br>
Sent:</b> Thursday, November 30, 2006 9:00 AM<b><br>
To:</b> Håvard Hjulstad; </font><a href="mailto:iso639-2@loc.gov" target=_blank><font size=2 color=blue face="Tahoma"><u>iso639-2@loc.gov</u></font></a><font size=2 face="Tahoma"><b><br>
Cc:</b> LTRU Working Group; </font><a href=mailto:zaiitov@gmail.com target=_blank><font size=2 color=blue face="Tahoma"><u>zaiitov@gmail.com</u></font></a><font size=2 face="Tahoma">;
ISO 639 Joint Advisory Committee; </font><a href="mailto:ietf-languages@iana.org" target=_blank><font size=2 color=blue face="Tahoma"><u>ietf-languages@iana.org</u></font></a><font size=2 face="Tahoma">;
</font><a href=mailto:iso639@dkuug.dk target=_blank><font size=2 color=blue face="Tahoma"><u>iso639@dkuug.dk</u></font></a><font size=2 face="Tahoma"><b><br>
Subject:</b> [Ltru] Alemanic & Swiss German</font>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font>
<p><font size=2>ISO 639-2 (on </font><a href="http://www.loc.gov/standards/iso639-2/php/code_list.php" target=_blank><font size=2 color=blue><u>http://www.loc.gov/standards/iso639-2/php/code_list.php</u></font></a><font size=2>)
lists the following:<br>
<br>
gsw Alemani; Swiss German
alémanique <br>
<br>
However, there is a "c" missing from Alemanic, and Swiss German
is not the same as Alemanic: Swiss German is a type of Alemanic, but there
are other types that are not the same as Swiss German.<br>
<br>
Quoting Martin Duerst: <br>
</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><br>
"Yes, Swabian is clearly Alemanic. Alemanic and Swiss German are not<br>
the same. There are very close similarities between some dialects in <br>
the north of Switzerland and across the border in Germany, but as<br>
soon as you cross the border, it's very clearly no longer Swiss<br>
German. A label such as "Alemanic; Swiss German", assuming that
<br>
both are the same, is clearly wrong. If it's something like<br>
"Alemanic; includes Swiss German", that would be okay."<br>
<br>
Can this be corrected so that it does not continue to mislead people? <br>
<br>
Mark Davis</font>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font><tt><font size=2>_______________________________________________<br>
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</font></tt>
<p>