Martin, I'm assuming you are on this list via LTRU.<br><br>Mark<br><br><div><span class="gmail_quote">On 11/30/06, <b class="gmail_sendername">Peter Constable</b> <<a href="mailto:petercon@microsoft.com">petercon@microsoft.com
</a>> wrote:</span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
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<p><font color="blue" face="Verdana" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana; color: blue;">I can tell you that the intent of "gsw"
is specifically Swiss German, and that the assumption of having "Alemanic"
listed as a name is that some people use that label to refer to specifically to
Swiss German. If the latter assumption is incorrect (which appears to be what Mark
is saying, then that is a change that the JAC should consider.</span></font></p>
<p><font color="blue" face="Verdana" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana; color: blue;"> </span></font></p>
<p><font color="blue" face="Verdana" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana; color: blue;">But if Martin's comment is the
supporting evidence, then I still find Martin's comment to be unclear. It's
clear to me what Mark is saying; it's not clear to me if Martin is saying the
same thing.</span></font></p>
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<p><font color="blue" face="Verdana" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana; color: blue;"> </span></font></p>
<p><font color="blue" face="Verdana" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana; color: blue;">Peter Constable</span></font></p>
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<p><b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; font-weight: bold;">From:</span></font></b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;">
<a href="mailto:mark.edward.davis@gmail.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">mark.edward.davis@gmail.com</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:mark.edward.davis@gmail.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">
mark.edward.davis@gmail.com</a>] <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">On Behalf Of </span></b>Mark Davis<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Thursday, November 30, 2006
11:07 AM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Peter Constable<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Cc:</span></b> Håvard Hjulstad;
<a href="mailto:iso639-2@loc.gov" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">iso639-2@loc.gov</a>; LTRU Working Group; <a href="mailto:zaiitov@gmail.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">
zaiitov@gmail.com</a>; ISO 639 Joint Advisory
Committee; <a href="mailto:ietf-languages@iana.org" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">ietf-languages@iana.org</a>; <a href="mailto:iso639@dkuug.dk" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">
iso639@dkuug.dk</a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Ltru] Alemanic &
Swiss German</span></font></p>
</div><div><span class="e" id="q_10f3b195209f892e_1">
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<p style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Alemanic refers to a
broader group of dialects than "Swiss German" (aka Schwyzertuesch)
does. So listing them as it does is problematic; it's like listing<br>
<br>
ar Arabic; Egyptian Arabic<br>
<br>
Personally, I don't care whether it is resolved to be <br>
<br>
Alemanic (including Swiss German) <br>
// which is what 639-3 seems to be pointing to<br>
<br>
or<br>
<br>
Swiss German (a particular variant of Alemanic)<br>
// which is what the code (gsw) seems to be pointing to<br>
<br>
But we need some clarity as to what is meant by the code. <br>
<br>
Mark</span></font></p>
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<p><span><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">On 11/30/06, <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Peter
Constable</span></b> <<a href="mailto:petercon@microsoft.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">petercon@microsoft.com</a>>
wrote:</span></font></span></p>
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<p><font color="blue" face="Verdana" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana; color: blue;">Martin's comment is somewhat vague: varieties
spoken on either side of the border are very similar, et "as soon as you
cross the border it's very clearly no longer Swiss German". Does that mean
that what is spoken across the border is clearly a different language, or that
the label "Swiss German" is clearly not used?</span></font></p>
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<p><font color="blue" face="Verdana" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana; color: blue;"> </span></font></p>
<p><font color="blue" face="Verdana" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana; color: blue;">Peter</span></font></p>
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<p><b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; font-weight: bold;">From:</span></font></b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;"> Mark Davis [mailto:
<a href="mailto:mark.davis@icu-project.org" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">mark.davis@icu-project.org</a>]
<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Thursday, November 30, 2006
9:00 AM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Håvard Hjulstad; <a href="mailto:iso639-2@loc.gov" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">iso639-2@loc.gov</a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Cc:</span></b> LTRU Working Group; <a href="mailto:zaiitov@gmail.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">zaiitov@gmail.com</a>; ISO 639
Joint Advisory Committee; <a href="mailto:ietf-languages@iana.org" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">ietf-languages@iana.org</a>; <a href="mailto:iso639@dkuug.dk" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">
iso639@dkuug.dk</a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> [Ltru] <span name="st"><span>Alemanic</span></span> & Swiss German</span></font></p>
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<p><font face="Helvetica" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica;">ISO
639-2 (on <a href="http://www.loc.gov/standards/iso639-2/php/code_list.php" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://www.loc.gov/standards/iso639-2/php/code_list.php</a>)
lists the following:<br>
<br>
gsw Alemani; Swiss
German alémanique <br>
<br>
However, there is a "c" missing from Alemanic, and Swiss German is
not the same as Alemanic: Swiss German is a type of Alemanic, but there are
other types that are not the same as Swiss German.<br>
<br>
Quoting Martin Duerst: <br>
<br>
</span></font>"Yes, Swabian is clearly <span name="st">Alemanic</span>. <span name="st">Alemanic</span> and Swiss German are not<br>
the same. There are very close similarities between some dialects in <br>
the north of Switzerland and across the border in Germany, but as<br>
soon as you cross the border, it's very clearly no longer Swiss<br>
German. A label such as "<span name="st">Alemanic</span>; Swiss German",
assuming that <br>
both are the same, is clearly wrong. If it's something like<br>
"<span name="st">Alemanic</span>; includes Swiss German", that would be
okay."<br>
<br>
Can this be corrected so that it does not continue to mislead people? <br>
<br>
Mark Davis</p>
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