<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">I actually agree with you. I've admitted that this is not a pure use of the language tag. Silent is not a language in any traditional sense -- hence the private tag. But for various reasons, we feel we need this as a language parameter in our industry. I am not pushing to register this tag and do not think it should be added to any language registry. </font>
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<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">We use the undetermined tag to indicate films where the language is truly undetermined. When we say silent, we are making a distinct classification that may have rights implications. And it is true that a lip-reader could determine the mute language that is being spoken.</font>
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<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">We're still debating this, but we may even want separate values for "no linguistic content" or "no narrative language" vs. silent which has a specific meaning -- an actor mouthing words in advance of title cards to indicate what that person is saying. (These films were localized so it is possible that the title cards could be in a different language than what the mute actor is speaking. So we could potentially have two versions of the same film -- one that is "Silent-audio/French-text" and one that is "Silent-audio/English-text.")</font>
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<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Randy raised the question about what home video software would do upon finding the qsi tag. It's a point well-taken and I'll give it some thought, but I'm wondering what the software would need to do if the film is silent. Or is the suggestion that because it doesn't recognize the tag it would get a headache and crash?</font>
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<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Karen Broome</font>
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<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif"><b>"Kent Karlsson" <kentk@cs.chalmers.se></b></font>
<br><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Sent by: ltru-bounces@ietf.org</font>
<p><font size=1 face="sans-serif">09/28/2005 09:35 AM</font>
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<br><font size=1 face="sans-serif"> To: ltru@ietf.org</font>
<br><font size=1 face="sans-serif"> cc: </font>
<br><font size=1 face="sans-serif"> Subject: Re: [Ltru] Tagging of silent films</font></table>
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<br><font size=2 face="Courier New">> Well, this is a metadata standard, so part of the documentation of the<br>
> standard<br>
> would be "This field contains an RFC 3066 tag; the private-use tag 'qsi'<br>
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Ok, so far.<br>
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> means 'silent film'."<br>
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qsi is supposedly a *language* tag. "Silent", "film", "silent film"<br>
does not really fit in there. If qsi in that metadata standard is<br>
to have any language relation with respect to this, interpreting it<br>
as "no lingustic content" (for an audio stream; or in some cases for<br>
the images stream) would be far better. Or are we to have a language<br>
subtag (variant) for films that does not show anyone speaking (or any<br>
imaged text) but there is a narrative? (Like for nature/wildlife films<br>
and the like.) I think not.<br>
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Using language tags for 'silent film', 'film with narrative' and<br>
such would not be a suitable use of *language* tags.<br>
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Using 'und' or 'qsi' (within that context) for "no [determinable]<br>
linguistic content" (for text, audio and imagages separate) would be<br>
fine. And I don't think 'und' is all that wrong for that. Maybe the<br>
sound of the talk is so faint that you didn't hear it ;-). If the<br>
metadata standard allows for a langauge tag to be optional, leaving<br>
the language tag out for saying "no [determinable] linguistic content"<br>
would be fine too. If you want to distinguish "no-one is heard speaking"<br>
from "jibberish-A" (and from "jibberish-B" etc.), which may or may not<br>
be in some language unknown to the taggers (or just artistic, like<br>
the "Swedish chef" in the Muppet Show), would that be worthwhile?<br>
I'm not so sure.<br>
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/kent k<br>
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