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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Snip/<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The subtags in the range 'qaa' through
'qtz' are reserved for<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>
private use in language tags. These subtags correspond to codes<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>
reserved by ISO 639-2 for private use. These codes MAY be used<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> for
non-registered primary-language subtags (instead of using<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>
private-use subtags following 'x-'). Please refer to Section 4.4<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> for
more information on private use subtags.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Why not use something in this range?
qqq perhaps!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Debbie<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
ietf-languages-bounces@alvestrand.no
[mailto:ietf-languages-bounces@alvestrand.no] <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>On
Behalf Of </span></b>Karen_Broome@spe.sony.com<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> 28 September 2005 19:10<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Kent Karlsson;
ietf-languages@iana.org<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Ltru] Tagging of
silent films</span></font><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
</span></font><font size=2 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:sans-serif'>I actually agree with you. I've admitted that this is
not a pure use of the language tag. Silent is not a language in any traditional
sense -- hence the private tag. But for various reasons, we feel we need this
as a language parameter in our industry. I am not pushing to register this tag
and do not think it should be added to any language registry. </span></font>
<br>
<br>
<font size=2 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'>We
use the undetermined tag to indicate films where the language is truly
undetermined. When we say silent, we are making a distinct classification that
may have rights implications. And it is true that a lip-reader could determine
the mute language that is being spoken.</span></font> <br>
<br>
<font size=2 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'>We're
still debating this, but we may even want separate values for "no
linguistic content" or "no narrative language" vs. silent which
has a specific meaning -- an actor mouthing words in advance of title cards to
indicate what that person is saying. (These films were localized so it is
possible that the title cards could be in a different language than what the
mute actor is speaking. So we could potentially have two versions of the same
film -- one that is "Silent-audio/French-text" and one that is
"Silent-audio/English-text.")</span></font> <br>
<br>
<font size=2 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'>Randy
raised the question about what home video software would do upon finding the
qsi tag. It's a point well-taken and I'll give it some thought, but I'm
wondering what the software would need to do if the film is silent. Or is the
suggestion that because it doesn't recognize the tag it would get a headache
and crash?</span></font> <br>
<br>
<font size=2 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'>Karen
Broome</span></font> <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=1 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:
7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif;font-weight:bold'>"Kent Karlsson"
<kentk@cs.chalmers.se></span></font></b> <br>
<font size=1 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'>Sent
by: ltru-bounces@ietf.org</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=1 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:
sans-serif'>09/28/2005 09:35 AM</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 face=Arial><span style='font-size:7.5pt;
font-family:Arial'> </span></font><br>
<font size=1 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'>
To: ltru@ietf.org</span></font>
<br>
<font size=1 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'>
cc: </span></font> <br>
<font size=1 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'>
Subject: Re: [Ltru] Tagging
of silent films</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
<br>
<br>
</span></font><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New"'>> Well, this is a metadata standard, so part of
the documentation of the<br>
> standard<br>
> would be "This field contains an RFC 3066 tag; the private-use tag
'qsi'<br>
<br>
Ok, so far.<br>
<br>
> means 'silent film'."<br>
<br>
qsi is supposedly a *language* tag. "Silent", "film",
"silent film"<br>
does not really fit in there. If qsi in that metadata standard is<br>
to have any language relation with respect to this, interpreting it<br>
as "no lingustic content" (for an audio stream; or in some cases for<br>
the images stream) would be far better. Or are we to have a language<br>
subtag (variant) for films that does not show anyone speaking (or any<br>
imaged text) but there is a narrative? (Like for nature/wildlife films<br>
and the like.) I think not.<br>
<br>
Using language tags for 'silent film', 'film with narrative' and<br>
such would not be a suitable use of *language* tags.<br>
<br>
Using 'und' or 'qsi' (within that context) for "no [determinable]<br>
linguistic content" (for text, audio and imagages separate) would be<br>
fine. And I don't think 'und' is all that wrong for that. Maybe the<br>
sound of the talk is so faint that you didn't hear it ;-). If the<br>
metadata standard allows for a langauge tag to be optional, leaving<br>
the language tag out for saying "no [determinable] linguistic
content"<br>
would be fine too. If you want to distinguish "no-one is heard
speaking"<br>
from "jibberish-A" (and from "jibberish-B" etc.), which may
or may not<br>
be in some language unknown to the taggers (or just artistic, like<br>
the "Swedish chef" in the Muppet Show), would that be worthwhile?<br>
I'm not so sure.<br>
<br>
/kent k<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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