Sign languages (was: Re: additions to ISO 639 and the IANA
language subtag registry)
Michael Everson
everson at evertype.com
Tue Feb 21 10:09:24 CET 2006
At 21:05 -0500 2006-02-20, John Cowan wrote:
> > Using this mechanism, for example, Signed Spoken
> > English would be "en-signed".
>
>I support this. Signed spoken languages are spoken languages in a different
>modality, just as written (spoken) languages are.
Signed English in the US and Ireland is different
from signed English in the UK. Do you understand
how?
> > For the former, I am not convinced that not grouping all possible sign
> > languages under a common "sgn-" umbrella constitutes "not helping the
> > Deaf community very well."
>
>That took some serious decoding with the three "not"s.
That's because Mark is in "theory mode". :-)
> > In any event, all of the tags in "sgn-" that were considered critical
> > enough, or in high-enough demand, to be registered under RFC 3066 are
> > still perfectly valid under RFC 3066bis. No new "sgn" tags had been
> > registered since November 2001.
>
>Quite so.
> > If there is a future revision to RFC 3066bis to incorporate the
>> forthcoming ISO 639-3, which is based on Ethnologue codes but which
>> should replace "Ethnologue" in our discussions, then I strongly support
>> including the ISO 639-3 code elements for sign languages as primary
>> language subtags at that time.
I think this is a mistake. I think Ethnologue's
taxonomy is immature with regard to these
languages.
>I, on the other hand, support keeping the 'sgn' subtag with the existing
>country codes, for reasons of backward compatibility. The difference
>between (true) signed and spoken languages is huge, much larger than the
>barriers between different signed languages (it is not unknown for signers
>with radically different languages to learn to communicate in one day).
>In addition, backward compatibility is very important.
Country designations (or some other designation)
are necessary in some instances.
>I propose that in 3066ter, the 'sgn' subtag should be treated as sui
>generis: partly a language, partly a macrolanguage. For the national
>sign languages, it is a language and the country subtag serves to
>discriminate; the corresponding 639-3 code element is suppressed from
>the subtag registry. For the non-national sign languages, it is a
>macrolanguage and the 639-3 code would be used as an extlang.
I am not sure it can be done algorithmically but
I agree that we should explore this avenue.
>I agree that this is messy, but we know that people have used codes like
>sgn-US, and there can be no assurances that they have not used 3066-valid
>codes like sgn-CR even though they were never registered with IANA.
>
>Here's my specific proposal:
>
> Adamorobe SL [sgn-ads] (Ghana)
I think using the 2-letter code for Ghana plus a
modifier might be better here. That is what we
used for Martha's Vineyard SL, isn't it?
In general I favour whaat John has suggested. I
would LIKE to work with Phil Blair and his
contacts at Gallaudet on this. Can we take time
to do that? It will take time.
> Algerian SL [sgn-DZ] (Algeria) (suppress asp)
> American SL [sgn-US] (USA) (suppress ase)
> Argentine SL [sgn-AR] (Argentina) (suppress aed)
> Armenian SL [sgn-AM] (Armenia) (suppress aen)
> Australian Aborigines SL [sgn-asw] (Australia) (non-Deaf)
> Australian SL [sgn-AU] (Australia) (suppress asf)
> Austrian SL [sgn-AT] (Austria) (suppress asq)
> Bali SL [sgn-bqy] (Indonesia (Java and Bali))
> Bamako SL [sgn-bog] (Mali)
> Ban Khor SL [sgn-bfk] (Thailand)
> Belgian-Flemish SL [sgn-be-nl] (Belgium) (grandfathered) (suppress bvs)
> Belgian-French SL [sgn-be-fr] (Belgium) (grandfathered) (suppress bvs)
> Bolivian SL [sgn-BO] (Bolivia) (suppress bvl)
> Brazilian SL [sgn-BR] (Brazil) (suppress bzs)
> British SL [sgn-GB] (United Kingdom) (suppress bfi)
> Bulgarian SL [sgn-BG] (Bulgaria) (suppress bqn)
> Catalonian SL [sgn-csc] (Spain)
> Chadian SL [sgn-TD] (Chad) (suppress cds)
> Chiangmai SL [sgn-csd] (Thailand)
> Chilean SL [sgn-CL] (Chile) (suppress csg)
> Chinese SL [sgn-CN] (China) (suppress csl)
> Colombian SL [sgn-CO] (Colombia) (suppress csn)
> Costa Rican SL [sgn-CR] (Costa Rica) (suppress csr)
> Croatia SL [sgn-HR] (Croatia) (suppress csq)
> Cuba SL [sgn-CU] (Cuba) (suppress csf)
> Czech SL [sgn-CZ] (Czech Republic) (suppress cse)
> Danish SL [sgn-DK] (Denmark) (suppress dsl)
> Dominican SL [sgn-DO] (Dominican Republic) (suppress doq)
> Dutch SL [sgn-NL] (Netherlands) (suppress dse)
> Ecuadorian SL [sgn-EC] (Ecuador) (suppress ecs)
> Egypt SL [sgn-EG] (Egypt) (suppress esl)
> Eskimo SL (not in 639-3 yet)
> Estonian SL [sgn-EE] (Estonia) (suppress eso)
> Ethiopian SL [sgn-ET] (Ethiopia) (suppress eth)
> Finnish SL [sgn-FI] (Finland) (suppress fse)
> Finnish-Swedish SL [sgn-fss] (Finland)
> French SL [sgn-FR] (France) (suppress fsl)
> German SL [sgn-DE] (Germany) (suppress gsg)
> Ghanaian SL [sgn-GH] (Ghana) (suppress gse)
> Greek SL [sgn-GR] (Greece) (suppress gss)
> Guatemalan SL [sgn-GT] (Guatemala) (suppress gsm)
> Guinean SL [sgn-GN] (Guinea) (suppress gus)
> Haiphong SL [sgn-haf] (Viet Nam)
> Hanoi SL [sgn-hab] (Viet Nam)
> Hausa SL [sgn-hsl] (Nigeria)
> Hawai'i Pidgin SL [sgn-hps] (USA)
> Ho Chi Minh City SL [sgn-hos] (Viet Nam)
> Honduras SL [sgn-HN] (Honduras) (suppress hds)
> Hungarian SL [sgn-HU] (Hungary) (suppress hsh)
> Icelandic SL [sgn-IS] (Iceland) (suppress icl)
> Indian SL [sgn-IN] (India) (suppress ins)
> Indonesian SL [sgn-ID] (Indonesia (Java and Bali)) (suppress inl)
> Irish SL [sgn-IE] (Ireland) (suppress isg)
> Israeli SL [sgn-IL] (Israel) (suppress isr)
> Italian SL [sgn-IT] (Italy) (suppress ise)
> Jamaican Country SL [sgn-JM or sgn-jcs, to be decided] (Jamaica)
> Japanese SL [sgn-JP] (Japan) (suppress jsl)
> Jordanian SL [sgn-JO] (Jordan) (suppress jos)
> Kenyan SL [sgn-KE] (Kenya) (suppress xki)
> Korean SL [sgn-KR] (Korea, South) (suppress kvk)
> Kuala Lumpur SL (not in 639-3 yet)
> Laos SL [sgn-LA] (Laos) (suppress lso)
> Latvian SL [sgn-LV] (Latvia) (suppress lsl)
> Libyan SL [sgn-LY] (Libya) (suppress lbs)
> Lithuanian SL [sgn-LT] (Lithuania) (suppress lls)
> Lyons SL [sgn-lsg] (France)
> Madagascar SL [sgn-MG] (Madagascar) (suppress mzc)
> Malaysian SL [sgn-MY] (Malaysia (Peninsular)) (suppress xml)
> Maltese SL [sgn-MT] (Malta) (suppress mdl)
> Maritime SL [sgn-nsr] (Canada)
> Martha's Vineyard SL [sgn-mre] (USA)
> Mexican SL [sgn-MX] (Mexico) (suppress mfs)
> Moldova SL [sgn-MD] (Moldova) (suppress vsi)
> Monastic SL [sgn-mzg] (Vatican State) (non-Deaf)
> Mongolian SL [sgn-MN] (Mongolia) (suppress msr)
> Moroccan SL [sgn-MA] (Morocco) (suppress xms)
> Mozambican SL [sgn-MZ] (Mozambique) (suppress mzy)
> Namibian SL [sgn-NA] (Namibia) (suppress nbs)
> Nepalese SL [sgn-NP] (Nepal) (suppress nsp)
> New Zealand SL [sgn-NZ] (New Zealand) (suppress nzs)
> Nicaraguan SL [sgn-NI] (Nicaragua) (suppress ncs)
> Nigerian SL [sgn-NG] (Nigeria) (suppress nsi)
> Norwegian SL [sgn-NO] (Norway) (suppress nsl)
> Nova Scotian SL (not in 639-3 yet)
> Old Kentish SL [sgn-okl] (United Kingdom)
> Pakistan SL [sgn-PK] (Pakistan) (suppress pks)
> Penang SL [sgn-psg] (Malaysia (Peninsular))
> Persian SL [sgn-IR] (Iran) (suppress psc)
> Peruvian SL [sgn-PE] (Peru) (suppress prl)
> Philippine SL [sgn-PH] (Philippines) (suppress psp)
> Plains Indian SL [sgn-psd] (USA) (non-Deaf)
> Polish SL [sgn-PL] (Poland) (suppress pso)
> Portuguese SL [sgn-PT] (Portugal) (suppress psr)
> Providencia SL [sgn-prz] (Colombia)
> Puerto Rican SL [sgn-PR] (Puerto Rico) (suppress psl)
> Quebec SL [sgn-fcs] (Canada)
> Rennellese SL [sgn-SB] (Solomon Islands) (suppress rsi)
> Romanian SL [sgn-RO] (Romania) (suppress rms)
> Russian SL [sgn-RU] (Russia (Europe)) (suppress rsl)
> Salvadoran SL [sgn-SV] (El Salvador) (suppress esn)
> Saudi Arabian SL [sgn-SA] (Saudi Arabia) (suppress sdl)
> Scandinavian Pidgin SL (not in 639-3 yet)
> Selangor SL [sgn-kgi] (Malaysia (Peninsular))
> Sierra Leone SL [sgn-SL] (Sierra Leone) (suppress sgx)
> Singapore SL [sgn-SG] (Singapore) (suppress sls)
> Slovakian SL [sgn-SK] (Slovakia) (suppress svk)
> South African SL [sgn-ZA] (South Africa) (suppress sfs)
> Spanish SL [sgn-ES] (Spain) (suppress ssp)
> Sri Lankan SL [sgn-LK] (Sri Lanka) (suppress sqs)
> Swedish SL [sgn-SE] (Sweden) (suppress swl)
> Swiss-French SL [sgn-ssr] (Switzerland)
> Swis-German SL [ssgn-ch-de] (Switzerland) (grandfathered)
> Swiss-Italian SL [sgn-slf] (Switzerland)
> Taiwan SL [sgn-TW] (Taiwan) (suppress tss)
> Tanzanian SL [sgn-TZ] (Tanzania) (suppress tza)
> Thai SL [sgn-TH] (Thailand) (suppress tsq)
> Tunisian SL [sgn-TN] (Tunisia) (suppress tse)
> Turkish SL [sgn-TR] (Turkey (Asia)) (suppress tsm)
> Ugandan SL [sgn-UG] (Uganda) (suppress ugn)
> Ukrainian SL [sgn-UA] (Ukraine) (suppress ukl)
> Urubú-Kaapor SL [sgn-uks] (Brazil)
> Uruguayan SL [sgn-UY] (Uruguay) (suppress ugy)
> Venezuelan SL [sgn-VE] (Venezuela) (suppress vsl)
> Yiddish SL [sgn-yds] (Israel)
> Yucatec Maya SL [sgn-msd] (Mexico)
> Yugoslavian SL [sgn-YU] (Serbia and Montenegro) (suppress ysl)
> Zambian SL [sgn-ZM] (Zambia) (suppress zsl)
> Zimbabwe SL [sgn-ZW] (Zimbabwe) (suppress zib)
--
Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com
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