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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>(Oops, kept too much of the subject when I clipped the digest).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>-Shawn<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><a name="_MailEndCompose"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></a></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> idna-update-bounces@alvestrand.no [mailto:idna-update-bounces@alvestrand.no] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Shawn Steele<br><b>Sent:</b> Poʻakolu, Malaki 24, 2010 9:23 AM<br><b>To:</b> Vint Cerf<br><b>Cc:</b> idna-update@alvestrand.no<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: FYI: Extending IDNA to other protocols (Nick Teint)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>IDNA2003 has terrible support throughout the system. Browsers are aware of it and sort-of work, but tons of other stuff is broken. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Part of the reason is that “everything” has a chance to muck with Domain Names at all sorts of layers. There’s actually a lot of code that was Unicode-aware, and UTF-8 DNS even worked in some systems. However now all that stuff is broken even though it has nothing to do with DNS, just because it might get punycode or might get Unicode and has no clue what form a DNS label might appear in. And it just gets worse everywhere.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Transitions like this are painful. In IDN’s attempt to make them less painful, instead they’re more painful. Maybe some older DNS server owners are happy, but I’ve got a lot of other unhappy places </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D'>L</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> That includes unhappy DNS servers that handled UTF-8 prior to IDNA2003 and now somehow they have to reconcile the disparity.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I’m under no illusion that EAI adoption will be trivial, but at least it’ll be somewhat controlled.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>-Shawn<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Vint Cerf [mailto:vint@google.com]<br><b>Sent:</b> Poʻakolu, Malaki 24, 2010 8:57 AM<br><b>To:</b> Shawn Steele<br><b>Cc:</b> idna-update@alvestrand.no<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: FYI: Extending IDNA to other protocols (Nick Teint)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>this requires a server change. good luck.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>v<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 11:50 AM, Shawn Steele <<a href="mailto:Shawn.Steele@microsoft.com">Shawn.Steele@microsoft.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>I much prefer the EAI method of using UTF-8 instead of the punycode hack. (<a href="http://www.ietf.org/dyn/wg/charter/eai-charter" target="_blank">http://www.ietf.org/dyn/wg/charter/eai-charter</a>). Indeed several vendors already seem to be working on EAI solutions.<br><br>For one thing, punycode has proven that it clutters the layers of an application and leads to terrible confusion about when an IDN name moves from Unicode to Punycode, requiring that the application layer have a deep understanding of DNS. It'd be much better to "fix" the protocols to make them comply with RFC 2279 "Protocols MUST be able to use the UTF-8 charset", rather than provide hacks.<br><br>-Shawn<br><br>----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 21:16:53 +0100<br>From: Nick Teint <<a href="mailto:nick.teint@googlemail.com">nick.teint@googlemail.com</a>><br>Subject: FYI: Extending IDNA to other protocols<br>To: <a href="mailto:idna-update@alvestrand.no">idna-update@alvestrand.no</a><br>Message-ID:<br> <<a href="mailto:7dabd4501003231316p2fd9ad24g385b5479af0a6c6@mail.gmail.com">7dabd4501003231316p2fd9ad24g385b5479af0a6c6@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1<br><br>Hi!<br><br>Today, I've submitted several Internet-Drafts describing a proposed<br>framework to use IDNA(bis) for non-domain addresses.<br><br>The basic idea is to extract anything from the address that fits the<br>syntax of a valid domain name "label", i.e. strings that roughly match<br>the "LDH" syntax for "A-labels" and "U-labels". The extracted strings<br>are then converted using a conversion very similar to IDNAbis.<br><br>The draft for the base is:<br><a href="http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-teint-xidna-base-00.txt" target="_blank">http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-teint-xidna-base-00.txt</a><br><br>Examples for profiles:<br><a href="http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-teint-xidna-email-00.txt" target="_blank">http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-teint-xidna-email-00.txt</a><br><a href="http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-teint-xidna-newsgroup-00.txt" target="_blank">http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-teint-xidna-newsgroup-00.txt</a><br><a href="http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-teint-xidna-zonefile-00.txt" target="_blank">http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-teint-xidna-zonefile-00.txt</a><br><br>NT<br>_______________________________________________<br>Idna-update mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Idna-update@alvestrand.no">Idna-update@alvestrand.no</a><br><a href="http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/listinfo/idna-update" target="_blank">http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/listinfo/idna-update</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></body></html>