<div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times; font-size: medium; "><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; font-family: Garamond; font-size: 12pt; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); min-height: 1100px; counter-reset: __goog_page__ 0; line-height: normal; direction: inherit; ">
<div id="doc-contents" style="margin-top: 6px; margin-bottom: 6px; direction: inherit; margin-right: 6px; margin-left: 6px; "><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; direction: inherit; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">I discussed your comments with the Unicode editorial board, and the following is based on that discussion.</font></span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; direction: inherit; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br></font></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; direction: inherit; ">
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Mark</font></span></div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br>
</font></span><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; direction: inherit; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">We'd like to thank you for your review of the document, it is quite helpful. The comments are very constructive, and some point out ways in which we can improve the document both from an IETF perspective, and absolutely. Below are some initial responses and questions; we'd appreciate hearing back from you where you still have questions, or think that the approach is still not sufficiently clear.</font></span></div>
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br></font></span><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; direction: inherit; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Note that we have just (yesterday morning) updated the proposed draft with the results of the March 11 editorial meeting, which should also improve some of the text substantially. That draft does not yet, however, have any changes incorporated as a result of your review. Note that there is a renumbering of sections, since the old section 6 becomes part of 4.</font></span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; direction: inherit; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br></font></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; direction: inherit; ">
<font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><a href="http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr46/">http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr46/</a></span></font></div>
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br></font></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br>
</font></span><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; direction: inherit; "><b><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Items 1, 1.1, 1.2. Specification and tables</font></span></b></div>
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br>The Unicode Consortium uses explicit listings of derived tables as a means of ensuring backwards compatibility between versions of the Unicode Standard. The current table for UTS #46 is based on Unicode 5.2, and will be updated for Unicode 6.0, Unicode 6.1, and so forth. Its derivation is consistent with the definition of the algorithm for the table for IDNA2008, with the obvious difference that it also deliberately incorporates the required mappings (casemapping, width folding, etc.) and the modifications necessary for transitional compatibility with IDNA2003, which are the point of UTS #46 processing. <br>
<br>We have found that explicit listings of a derived table is much more reliable for implementations than depending on individual engineers correctly implementing the complicated derivation of the table, on top of the already complicated processing that makes use of the table. This, by the way, is the same kind of methodology which applies to *all* of the derived data tables for the Unicode Character Database, so this follows data maintenance practices which are widely understood among Unicode implementers. <br>
<br>There is no intent here of tying UTS #46 processing to a specific version of the Unicode Standard, or to "turn things back to the situation with IDNA2003", which was tied specifically to Unicode 3.2.</font></span><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; direction: inherit; ">
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"> </font></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; direction: inherit; "><b><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Items 2, 2.1, 2.2. Normativity</font></span></b></div>
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br></font></span><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; direction: inherit; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">The normative part of the document is driven from the conformance clauses, which specify how the processing functions. The only implications for applications are that if they choose to use the processing, in order to be conformant they need to replicate the results. That is typically how the Unicode specifications of algorithms are structured.</font></span></div>
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br></font></span><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; direction: inherit; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Could you let us know where you find the language confusing? We can then make sure that it is clearer (but also see below).</font></span></div>
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br></font></span><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; direction: inherit; "><b><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Item 2.3. Taxonomy</font></span></b></div>
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br>We are not sure about your exact concern here, but if the issue is whether UTS #46 is using terms such as "A-label" and "U-label" according to the definitions in IDNA2008, the intent is that these terms be used exactly as defined in IDNA2008. This can be clarified in the text by explicit reference to the IDNA2008 definitions. <br>
<br></font></span><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; direction: inherit; "><b><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Items 3, 3.1. Content.</font></span></b></div>
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br></font></span><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; direction: inherit; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">UTS #46 does two different things. It supplies a mapping, which can be used as preprocessing for IDNA2008. However, it also allows (transitionally) characters that are not valid in IDNA2008. Thus, as a whole, it cannot be considered a preprocessing for IDNA2008. This is summarized in the middle of Section 2:</font></span></div>
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br></font></span><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; direction: inherit; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Summarized briefly, UTS #46 builds upon IDNA2008 in three areas:</font></span></div>
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br></font></span><blockquote class="webkit-indent-blockquote" style="padding-top: 10px; padding-right: 10px; padding-bottom: 10px; padding-left: 10px; border-top-style: none; border-right-style: none; border-bottom-style: none; border-left-style: none; border-width: initial; border-color: initial; border-width: initial; border-color: initial; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 40px; ">
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; direction: inherit; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Mapping. The UTS #46 mapping is used to maintain maximal compatibility and meet user expectations. It is conformant to IDNA2008, which allows for mapping input.</font></span></div>
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br></font></span><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; direction: inherit; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Symbols and Punctuation. UTS #46 supports processing of symbols and punctuation during the transitional period. The transition will be smooth: as registries move to IDNA2008 the DNS lookups of IDNs with symbols will simply be refused. At that point, in practice, there is full compatibility with IDNA2008.</font></span></div>
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br></font></span><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; direction: inherit; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Deviations. UTS #46 provides two different ways of handling these to support a transition. Transitional Processing should only be used immediately before a DNS lookup in the circumstances where the registry doesn't guarantee a strategy of bundling or blocking. In all other cases, the Nontransitional Processing, which is fully compatible with IDNA2008, should be used.</font></span></div>
</blockquote><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br></font></span><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; direction: inherit; ">
<b><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Item 3.2 URI/URL/IRI, Section 1</font></span></b></div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br>
</font></span><p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; direction: inherit; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">There is nothing normative in Section 1; it is intended only as informative background about the problems facing implementers of IDNA2008.</font></span></p>
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br></font></span><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; direction: inherit; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">We will clarify the relationship between domain names and the IRIs used in examples.</font></span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; direction: inherit; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"> </font></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; direction: inherit; ">
<b><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Item 3.3. table vs derivation</font></span></b></div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br>
We will recast the text of the now Section 6, to make it clear that the mapping table derivation has *nothing* to do with the mapping of labels in Section 4. It is a metaoperation outside the context of Section 4, which defines the derivation of the table which is then used for mapping in Section 4.<br>
<br></font></span><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; direction: inherit; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Note the mapping table is constructed so that it can apply to the entire domain name in one step. This matches what is done in practice in IE and other environments. The table does have some modifications to ensure that that works properly, such as exclusion of characters like U+2488 ( ⒈ ) DIGIT ONE FULL STOP (see the last line in §7).</font></span></div>
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br></font></span><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; direction: inherit; "><b><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Item 3.4, Security Considerations</font></span></b></div>
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br></font></span><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; direction: inherit; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">This was already changed in the last editorial phase, for the very reasons you cite. The title is now "Transition Considerations", and contains modified text.</font></span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; direction: inherit; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"> </font></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; direction: inherit; ">
<b><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Item 3.5. "a<ZWJ>b"</font></span></b></div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br>
</font></span><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; direction: inherit; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">True, we will make that example clearer, by providing context.</font></span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; direction: inherit; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"> </font></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; direction: inherit; ">
<b><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Item 3.6. Unicode characters and encodings, escaping</font></span></b></div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br>
</font></span><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; direction: inherit; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">The entire document is structured as applying to only Unicode text; if a string is not already in Unicode, then it needs to be converted. We will a sentence about that. However, all of the processing is in terms of code points, so whether the text is in UTF-8, UTF-16, or UTF-32 is immaterial for the specification. It can be applied equally well to any of them.</font></span></div>
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br></font></span><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; direction: inherit; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">The paragraph about escaping is not normative, it is simply informative. We will make that clear or move that text.</font></span></div>
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br></font></span><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; direction: inherit; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Note that the processing is structured so that it handles a "mixed" domain name in the URL, like "<a href="http://xn--fltstrm-5wa1o.xn--fltstrm-5wa1o.com">xn--fltstrm-5wa1o.Fältström.com</a>", and validates the punyicode label.</font></span></div>
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br></font></span><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; direction: inherit; "><b><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Item 3.7, 3.8 Table construction</font></span></b></div>
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br></font></span><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; direction: inherit; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">The characters listed in step 3 were not hand-picked: they were derived, that is "The exclusion set consists of characters that have a different mapping in IDNA2003 than the base mapping value specified in Step 1, or that are disallowed in IDNA2003.". What we will do is make the derivation steps for this section more explicit.</font></span></div>
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br></font></span><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; direction: inherit; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">We'll add text explaining how the mapping alone can be used as a preprocessing of IDNA2008, where the transtional characters are not needed.</font></span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; direction: inherit; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"> </font></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; direction: inherit; ">
<b><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Item 4, 4.1, 4.2. Structure, comparison</font></span></b></div><b><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br>
</font></span></b><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; direction: inherit; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">We'll fix the issue with the escaping, which appears to be where a majority of the confusion may arise, and show how the mapping can be used alone. The exact differences between the IDNA2003, IDNA2008, and the UTS 46 table are pointed out in the table at the end, with pointers to an online comparison. They can also be compared explicitly with a Perl script. So we think this is sufficient.</font></span></div>
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br></font></span><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; direction: inherit; "><b><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Item 4.3. Handling IRIs in the browser environment</font></span></b></div>
<b><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br></font></span></b><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; direction: inherit; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Such material is outside of the scope of the document for the current release. We agree that that kind of material would be very useful to collect and present, either in a future version of the document or in another document.</font></span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; direction: inherit; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br></font></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; direction: inherit; ">
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">==== </font></span></div></div></div></span>
<font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br><br></font><div class="gmail_quote"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">2010/3/16 Patrik Fältström </font><span dir="ltr"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><<a href="mailto:patrik@frobbit.se">patrik@frobbit.se</a>></font></span><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br>
</font><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div class="im"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">On 16 mar 2010, at 10.40, Vint Cerf wrote:<br>
<br>
> Reference to TR46 seemed to be desired by the AD<br>
> but as you see from Patrik Faltsrom's detailed review of that draft<br>
> document, there is much to discuss and debate.<br><br></font>
</div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Vint, I do not think everyone have seen the review. I did a review during the past weekend on request from Unicode Consortium and the IAB.<br><br>
But, of course this is nothing secret. You can find the review on my blog:<br><br></font>
<a href="http://stupid.domain.name/node/955" target="_blank"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">http://stupid.domain.name/node/955</font></a><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br>
<br>
Note though that this is MY personal review, written without any hat on.<br><br>
And, there are disclaimers that I might have misunderstood things in the document -- which imply the only thing needed is that the document should be clarified so I do not misunderstand the next time I read it :-)<br></font>
<font color="#888888"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br>
Patrik<br></font>
</font><div><div></div><div class="h5"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br>
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