<div>I agree with you that Michael can put whatever he wants into <a href="http://xxx.evertype.com">xxx.evertype.com</a>. If, however, no client software ever ends up going there, it doesn't matter much what he does. So if he wants to have <＄.<a href="http://evertype.com">evertype.com</a>> (which equals <<a href="http://xn--vg7c.evertype.com">xn--vg7c.evertype.com</a>>), there isn't anything stopping him - it just won't work in practice.</div>
<div><br></div><div>On trademarks, however, what you imply I said about them doesn't seem to have much to do with what I actually did say about them.</div><div><br><div><div>Mark<br>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 09:47, John C Klensin <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:klensin@jck.com">klensin@jck.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<br>
<br>
--On Friday, December 11, 2009 10:20 +0000 Michael Everson<br>
<div class="im"><<a href="mailto:everson@evertype.com">everson@evertype.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> On 11 Dec 2009, at 09:32, Shawn Steele wrote:<br>
><br>
>> I'm not a lawyer, but I suspect you can't even register<br>
>> <a href="http://fussy.live.com" target="_blank">fussy.live.com</a> and <a href="http://fussy.live.com" target="_blank">fußy.live.com</a> individually.<br>
><br>
> I can't register <a href="http://fussy.evertype.com" target="_blank">fussy.evertype.com</a> and <a href="http://fussy.evertype.com" target="_blank">fußy.evertype.com</a>?<br>
> Says who?<br>
<br>
</div>Shawn,<br>
<br>
Because I fear that this is still not clear, Michael is making<br>
the point that several of the rest of us have been trying to<br>
make in other ways. The DNS is a distributed administrative<br>
hierarchy. In the general case, no one has any control over<br>
subdomains (whether delegated or not, see Andrew's recent<br>
comment about zone cuts) of <a href="http://evertype.com" target="_blank">evertype.com</a> other than Michael; no<br>
one has any control over subdomains of <a href="http://jck.com" target="_blank">jck.com</a> other than me; no<br>
one outside Microsoft has any control over subdomains of<br>
<a href="http://live.com" target="_blank">live.com</a>; and so on for probably hundreds of millions of other<br>
domains.<br>
<br>
Each of us sets our own policies. Not only does nothing prevent<br>
Michael from putting both "fussy" and the ACE/Punycode-converted<br>
version of "fußy" into the <a href="http://evertype.com" target="_blank">evertype.com</a> zone, nothing prevents<br>
him from also installing "fußy" as a UTF-8 (or even UTF-16 or<br>
UTF-32) string into that zone, nor even from installing it as a<br>
ISO 8859-1 string. Barring his going to considerable effort to<br>
carefully set up aliases (again, see Andrew's recent note and<br>
understand that there are even more possibilities depending on<br>
what he actually wants to do with the names), each one of those<br>
is --both conceptually and operationally-- labels a completely<br>
separate DNS node with whatever record types he wants to attach<br>
at that node. If you can't register both <a href="http://fussy.live.com" target="_blank">fussy.live.com</a> and<br>
<a href="http://fussy.live.com" target="_blank">fußy.live.com</a> individually, that is an issue between you and<br>
Microsoft -- not only do the rest of us not care, but someone,<br>
somewhere, will probably conclude that Microsoft's imposing that<br>
restriction is a market opportunity and offer both of those<br>
labels in some other second-level domain.<br>
<br>
While, in theory, the TLD registry -- .com in this case-- could<br>
impose contractual requirements on Michael (or me) about what we<br>
could or could not insert in our zone files, no major TLD<br>
registry has tried to do that in years and years, much less<br>
tried to enforce such rules. Even then, the requirements would<br>
be contractual, not anything imposed by the DNS protocols or<br>
other technical requirements.<br>
<br>
>From the standpoint of anything this WG --or the IETF in<br>
general-- can do, the decisions are, like it or not, strictly<br>
local ones.<br>
<br>
There are two actual sources of restrictions. I will leave it<br>
to you to estimate how important they are in the general case<br>
(remember, hundreds of millions of zones):<br>
<br>
(1) I manage my own zones. I assume from his comment that<br>
Michael manages, or has very close control over, his. Someone<br>
who has some other entity managing a zone for them, or who<br>
manages it via a web interface to a server they don't control,<br>
may be fairly restricted about what they can put into a zone.<br>
If those interfaces were making tests on their input, I assume<br>
they might block UTF-16 or UTF-32 and maybe even UTF-8 and some<br>
other forms (that blocking might occur either as a design<br>
decision or via careless coding). But those would be<br>
restrictions imposed by the chosen operator, not the DNS. And<br>
registrants for domains can change their operators at any time.<br>
<br>
(2) With apologies to Mark's wife and her colleagues, trademark<br>
lawyers do get involved in these situations on a case by case<br>
basis, sometimes deep in the tree. It is plausible to assume,<br>
based on several prior episodes, that, while Michael could<br>
install <a href="http://mickey.evertype.com" target="_blank">mickey.evertype.com</a>, <a href="http://minnie.evertype.com" target="_blank">minnie.evertype.com</a>,<br>
<a href="http://donald.evertype.com" target="_blank">donald.evertype.com</a>, and <a href="http://goofy.evertype.com" target="_blank">goofy.evertype.com</a>, he might hear from<br>
someone demanding that he remove them if that set of domains<br>
started to be widely publicized. But that is a different<br>
problem, it wouldn't prevent him from inserting those names into<br>
the zone, and the odds of its occurring if he installed<br>
<a href="http://fussy.evertype.com" target="_blank">fussy.evertype.com</a> and <a href="http://fussy.evertype.com" target="_blank">fußy.evertype.com</a> as separate nodes is,<br>
well, low.<br>
<font color="#888888"><br>
john<br>
</font><div><div></div><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
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