<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">There was endless discussion on this particular question (inter-label rules) and the group consensus was that this added too much complexity. The existence of DNAMES that you cannot test before registration was a major argument against using inter-label methods to qualify a label's validity.<div><br></div><div>vint</div><div><br></div><div><br><div><div>On Oct 14, 2009, at 7:45 AM, Raed Al-Fayez wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div class="Section1"><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Dear Vint,<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Sorry for the Typo … yes you are correct the intended example are:<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">1 - Mixing between scripts in one domain name where label1 from a script that has RTL chars while label2 from another script that has LTR chars/digits (e.g. xyz.ABC.xyz where xyz are LTR chars and ABC are RTL chars)<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">2- If a label begins with a number while the previous label ends with a number (e.g. AA2.3BB.CC where ABC are RTL chars)<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">I agree that the suggested solution may requires “inter-label examination” but again that was a solution that came to my mind and think there might be other ways to solve the issue.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Even if what I have suggested was the only solution that can solve the problem I hope the group will reconsider their direction since it will free lots of false positive related to this issue.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">What I want to say that we should do our best to minimize the number of prevented domains that are not part of this problem.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">With best regards,</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Raed I. Al-Fayez</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">------------------------------------------</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Senior IT Projects Specialist, M.Sc, PMP</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Saudi Network Information Center (SaudiNIC)<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>Communication and Information Technology Commission (CITC)</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Tel: + 966-1-2639235 - Fax: + 966-1-2639393</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><a href="http://www.nic.net.sa/" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.nic.net.sa</a></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div><div style="border-right-style: none; border-bottom-style: none; border-left-style: none; border-width: initial; border-color: initial; border-top-style: solid; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt; padding-top: 3pt; padding-right: 0in; padding-bottom: 0in; padding-left: 0in; "><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; ">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Vint Cerf [<a href="mailto:vint@google.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">mailto:vint@google.com</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Wednesday, 14 October 2009 10:59 AM<br><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Raed Al-Fayez<br><b>Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Abdulrahman I. ALGhadir;<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:idna-update@alvestrand.no" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">idna-update@alvestrand.no</a><br><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: RTL labels and numbers?<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">Raed,<o:p></o:p></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">doesn't your solution require inter-label examination? We debated that and concluded that the complexity was too high to implement. The DNAME problem also creates the potential for surprises in spite of inter-label testing. So even though your examples are clear (well there are some problems - see below), if the solution requires inter-label checking, we've seriously debated that and concluded not to require it.<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">Maybe I am not understanding your examples as well as I should.<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">did you mean to say:<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">1 - Mixing between scripts in one domain name label1 from a script that has RTL chars while label2 from another script that has LTR chars (e.g. xyz.ABC.xyz where xyz are LTR chars and ABC are RTL chars)<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">vint<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">On Oct 14, 2009, at 2:12 AM, Raed Al-Fayez wrote:<o:p></o:p></div></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><br><br><o:p></o:p></div><div><div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Dear All,</span><span style="color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> </span><span style="color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">It is clear to us the risks with the labels which starts with digits and have RTL characters. But here I want to tackle the issue from a different angle:</span><span style="color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> </span><span style="color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">By denying all domains that start with a number we are preventing lots of valid option to the Arabic users (or anyone who use RTL language)!</span><span style="color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> </span><span style="color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">I think we can optimize the protocol to only deny the cases that might make problems that might happen.</span><span style="color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> </span><span style="color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">For example these domain names does not have any problems in the display:</span><span style="color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-indent: 0.5in; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">AAA.3BBB.CCC (Where A, B and C are RTL chars)</span><span style="color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-indent: 0.5in; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">A3A.3BB3CCC (Where A, B and C are RTL chars)</span><span style="color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> </span><span style="color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">The problem mainly occur some domain names if:</span><span style="color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div style="margin-left: 0.5in; "><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-indent: -0.25in; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">1-</span><span style="font-size: 7pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> <span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Mixing between scripts in one domain name lable1 from a script that have RTL chars while lable2 from another script that have RTL chars (e.g. xyz.ABC.xyz where xyz are LRT chars and ABC are RTL chars)</span><span style="color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div style="margin-left: 0.5in; "><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-indent: -0.25in; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">2-</span><span style="font-size: 7pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> <span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">If a label begins with a number while the previous label ends with a number (e.g. AA2.3BB.CC where ABC are RTL chars)</span><span style="color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Other than these two rare cases I think there are no display problem (at least from the Arabic-Script point of view).</span><span style="color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> </span><span style="color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">I think there are many solution that can solve this problem..A quick one that pops in my mind (which can be implemented at the protocol level) is let the protocol check the labels that contains RTL chars and only deny the above two cases and allow other valid domains.</span><span style="color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> </span><span style="color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">I hope the group try to help more in this issue …</span><span style="color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> </span><span style="color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Thanks ..</span><span style="color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> </span><span style="color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> </span><span style="color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">With best regards,</span><span style="color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> </span><span style="color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Raed I. Al-Fayez</span><span style="color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">------------------------------------------</span><span style="color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Senior IT Projects Specialist, M.Sc, PMP</span><span style="color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Saudi Network Information Center (SaudiNIC)<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>Communication and Information Technology Commission (CITC)</span><span style="color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Tel: + 966-1-2639235 - Fax: + 966-1-2639393</span><span style="color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><a href="http://www.nic.net.sa/" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.nic.net.sa</a></span><span style="color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> </span><span style="color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="border-right-style: none; border-bottom-style: none; border-left-style: none; border-width: initial; border-color: initial; border-top-style: solid; padding-top: 3pt; padding-right: 0in; padding-bottom: 0in; padding-left: 0in; border-width: initial; border-color: initial; "><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: black; ">From:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: black; "> </span></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: black; "><a href="mailto:idna-update-bounces@alvestrand.no" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">idna-update-bounces@alvestrand.no</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[<a href="mailto:idna-update-bounces@alvestrand.no" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">mailto:idna-update-bounces@alvestrand.no</a>]<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Vint Cerf<br><b>Sent:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Tuesday, 13 October 2009 4:06 PM<br><b>To:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Abdulrahman I. ALGhadir<br><b>Cc:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:idna-update@alvestrand.no" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">idna-update@alvestrand.no</a><br><b>Subject:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: RTL labels and numbers?</span><span style="color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="color: black; "> <o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="color: black; ">for the most part, the IDNA2008 specification does place a great deal of responsibility on<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="color: black; ">the registry but for some cases, it was considered important to bar particularly confusing<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="color: black; ">situations at the protocol level. This was debated substantially during the course of the<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="color: black; ">development of IDNA2008.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="color: black; "> <o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="color: black; "> <o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="color: black; ">On Oct 13, 2009, at 4:15 AM, Abdulrahman I. ALGhadir wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="color: black; "><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div><div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">Hello,</span><span style="color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">Well while I was reading draft-ietf-idnabis-bidi-06.txt I found this:</span><span style="color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "> </span><span style="color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; "><span style="color: black; ">“4.3. Strings with numbers<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; "><span style="color: black; "> <o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; "><span style="color: black; "> By requiring that the first or last character of a string be category<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; "><span style="color: black; "> R or AL, RFC 3454 prohibited a string containing right-to-left<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; "><span style="color: black; "> characters from ending with a number.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; "><span style="color: black; "> <o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; "><span style="color: black; "> Consider the strings ALEF 5 (HEBREW LETTER ALEF + DIGIT FIVE) and 5<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; "><span style="color: black; "> ALEF. Displayed in an LTR context, the first one will be displayed<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; "><span style="color: black; "> from left to right as 5 ALEF (with the 5 being considered right-to-<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; "><span style="color: black; "> left because of the leading ALEF), while 5 ALEF will be displayed in<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; "><span style="color: black; "> exactly the same order (5 taking the direction from context).<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; "><span style="color: black; "> Clearly, only one of those should be permitted as a registered label,<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; "><span style="color: black; "> but barring them both seems unnecessary.”<o:p></o:p></span></pre><div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "> </span><span style="color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">Why permitting done on the protocol level ? shouldn’t this be done at registry level?</span><span style="color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "> </span><span style="color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">Ex. If someone wants to register 3COM (COM is a RTL word) registry will register 3COM for him/her and will lock COM3.</span><span style="color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">At least this will give users the choice for picking not forcing them on one type?</span><span style="color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "> </span><span style="color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">Thank you,</span><span style="color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "> </span><span style="color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "> </span><span style="color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div></div><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; "><span style="color: black; ">-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; "><span style="color: black; ">Disclaimer:<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; "><span style="color: black; ">This message and its attachment, if any, are confidential and may contain legally<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; "><span style="color: black; ">privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; "><span style="color: black; ">sender immediately and delete this message and its attachment, if any, from your<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; "><span style="color: black; ">system. You should not copy this message or disclose its contents to any other<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; "><span style="color: black; ">person or use it for any purpose. Statements and opinions expressed in this e-mail<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; "><span style="color: black; ">are those of the sender, and do not necessarily reflect those of the Communications<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; "><span style="color: black; ">and Information Technology Commission (CITC). CITC accepts no liability for damage<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; "><span style="color: black; ">caused by this email.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: black; ">_______________________________________________<br>Idna-update mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Idna-update@alvestrand.no" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">Idna-update@alvestrand.no</a><br><a href="http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/listinfo/idna-update" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/listinfo/idna-update</a></span><span style="color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="color: black; "> <o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div></div><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; "><span style="color: black; ">-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; "><span style="color: black; ">Disclaimer:<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; "><span style="color: black; ">This message and its attachment, if any, are confidential and may contain legally<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; "><span style="color: black; ">privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; "><span style="color: black; ">sender immediately and delete this message and its attachment, if any, from your<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; "><span style="color: black; ">system. You should not copy this message or disclose its contents to any other<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; "><span style="color: black; ">person or use it for any purpose. Statements and opinions expressed in this e-mail<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; "><span style="color: black; ">are those of the sender, and do not necessarily reflect those of the Communications<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; "><span style="color: black; ">and Information Technology Commission (CITC). CITC accepts no liability for damage<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; "><span style="color: black; ">caused by this email.<o:p></o:p></span></pre></div></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div></div><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; ">-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer:
This message and its attachment, if any, are confidential and may contain legally
privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the
sender immediately and delete this message and its attachment, if any, from your
system. You should not copy this message or disclose its contents to any other
person or use it for any purpose. Statements and opinions expressed in this e-mail
are those of the sender, and do not necessarily reflect those of the Communications
and Information Technology Commission (CITC). CITC accepts no liability for damage
caused by this email.
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