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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Dear Vint,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I would love to say that we as the .gr Registry are enthusiastic
about the proposed solution (PVALID Final Sigma) but in reality we are quite skeptical.
I can clearly see the advantages of the use of a distinct final sigma. The
reality however is that the change is significant and the registry will have to
take measures to reduce the impact.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>It will be necessary for us (and I believe anyone who
uses Esszett as well) to “map” the two versions of the domain names
ourselves to overcome the fact that browsers and software do not change
overnight and IDNA2003 and IDNA2008 are incompatible.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>In Greek, a word that finishes with a final sigma in small
characters when typed in capital letters gets a normal capital sigma in the
place of that final sigma. Although you have prohibited Capital letters in
IDNA2008 any browser programmer will try to translate letter by letter a URL
typed in capital. Most possibly then he will translate a capital Sigma to sigma
and not final sigma, regardless of its position in the word. Why would a
programmer try to learn Greek grammar?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>For each final sigma in a domain name, the registrant
will have to register a variant with a lower sigma in that position as well and
each variant that occurs if you put more than one final sigma in a domain name.
For 2 final sigmas you will have 4 variants. If you add to this the tonos
punctuation point issue (in capital letters it is not used and this gives us
two variants for each domain name), you end up with sixteen variants for a
single domain name with two final sigmas (two words)!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>We already do bundling of the domain names. We will
probably do it in the future, especially if this proposed solution moves
forward. If you have any other alternatives though that could shed some new
light on these issues, this might be a good time to start discussing them. Even
if this means a best practice document or IDNAv2_2009, anything should be open
to discussion.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Best Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Vaggelis Segredakis<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Administrator of the .GR Top Level Domain</span></font><span
lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Institute of Computer Science</span></font><span
lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas</span></font><span
lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Tel. +30-281-0391450</span></font><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Fax +30-281-0391451</span></font><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Email segred@ics.forth.gr</span></font><span
lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0cm'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Message: 3<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009
20:14:04 -0500<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>From: Vint Cerf
<vint@google.com><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Subject: Re: Esszett,
Final Sigma, ZWJ and ZWNJ<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>To: Mark Davis
<mark@macchiato.com><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Cc: Paul Hoffman
<phoffman@imc.org>, Andrew Sullivan<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <ajs@shinkuro.com>, idna-update@alvestrand.no,
John C Klensin<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <klensin@jck.com><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Message-ID:
<2C4BC1C5-3B45-46FA-AA6D-9A60D3C72B35@google.com><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="utf-8"<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Mark,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>thanks - I think what
left me in an ambiguous state was the term "bits on the wire".
In your example, under the IDNA2003 mapping process, the final sigma is mapped
into ordinary sigma and THEN the resulting string is looked up (after
conversion to xn-- format using the punycode algorithm). The two forms become
identical prior to lookup. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Under the proposed
IDNA2008 rules, the two strings remain distinct in both the U-label and A-label
format and thus look "different" on the wire and unless other
measures are taken (bundling, restricted registration, etc) it is possible for
the two domains to yield distinct results on lookup.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Paul - is that the
picture you wanted to paint?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>sorry to be slow to see
which bits you were comparing.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>v<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Vint Cerf<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Google<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>1818 Library Street,
Suite 400<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Reston, VA 20190<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>202-370-5637<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>vint@google.com<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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