<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:x="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:excel" xmlns:p="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:powerpoint" xmlns:a="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:access" xmlns:dt="uuid:C2F41010-65B3-11d1-A29F-00AA00C14882" xmlns:s="uuid:BDC6E3F0-6DA3-11d1-A2A3-00AA00C14882" xmlns:rs="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:rowset" xmlns:z="#RowsetSchema" xmlns:b="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:publisher" xmlns:ss="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:spreadsheet" xmlns:c="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:component:spreadsheet" xmlns:odc="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:odc" xmlns:oa="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:activation" xmlns:html="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40" xmlns:q="http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/envelope/" xmlns:D="DAV:" xmlns:x2="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/excel/2003/xml" xmlns:ois="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/ois/" xmlns:dir="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/directory/" xmlns:ds="http://www.w3.org/2000/09/xmldsig#" xmlns:dsp="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/dsp" xmlns:udc="http://schemas.microsoft.com/data/udc" xmlns:xsd="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema" xmlns:sub="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/2002/1/alerts/" xmlns:ec="http://www.w3.org/2001/04/xmlenc#" xmlns:sp="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/" xmlns:sps="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/" xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" xmlns:udcs="http://schemas.microsoft.com/data/udc/soap" xmlns:udcxf="http://schemas.microsoft.com/data/udc/xmlfile" xmlns:udcp2p="http://schemas.microsoft.com/data/udc/parttopart" xmlns:wf="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/workflow/" xmlns:dsss="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2006/digsig-setup" xmlns:dssi="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2006/digsig" xmlns:mdssi="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/package/2006/digital-signature" xmlns:mver="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/markup-compatibility/2006" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns:mrels="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/package/2006/relationships" xmlns:spwp="http://microsoft.com/sharepoint/webpartpages" xmlns:ex12t="http://schemas.microsoft.com/exchange/services/2006/types" xmlns:ex12m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/exchange/services/2006/messages" xmlns:pptsl="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/SlideLibrary/" xmlns:spsl="http://microsoft.com/webservices/SharePointPortalServer/PublishedLinksService" xmlns:Z="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" xmlns:st="" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 12 (filtered medium)">
<style>
<!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
span.EmailStyle17
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;}
@page Section1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.Section1
{page:Section1;}
/* List Definitions */
@list l0
{mso-list-id:219051831;
mso-list-template-ids:-1584740890;}
ol
{margin-bottom:0in;}
ul
{margin-bottom:0in;}
-->
</style>
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
</head>
<body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple>
<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Hi Mark, with your specific example I agree that bundling will
probably be the only thing that seems sensible. However, your example
anticipates that bundling was used as a workaround for not having the final
sigma available initially. If that was not the case, then </span><a
href="http://xn--oxaekj2bcabb8h.com">τιςγλώσσες.com</a> would not go anywhere –
but it might still be sensible to offer the registrant of <a
href="http://xn--oxaekj2bcabb8h.com">τισγλώσσεσ.com</a> or perhaps the
registrant of some transliterated version of <a
href="http://xn--oxaekj2bcabb8h.com">τιςγλώσσες.com</a> (if such exist – you can
replace with the Esszett and the ZWJ and ZWNJ) an early/sunrise registration of
<a href="http://xn--oxaekj2bcabb8h.com">τιςγλώσσες.com</a> - - again in my
mind, we can make suggestions and examples only, because the various registries
may have adopted very different workaround rules for not being able to offer
these characters in the early registration years.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>The most important thing now is to make the characters
available, so that damage is not continued and revisions locally are not
becoming increasingly problematic (as volume and usage is going up with the
addition of for example email clients).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Tina<span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> mark.edward.davis@gmail.com
[mailto:mark.edward.davis@gmail.com] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Mark Davis<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, February 23, 2009 1:54 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Tina Dam<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Vint Cerf; idna-update@alvestrand.no<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Esszett, Final Sigma, ZWJ and ZWNJ<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>I disagree - bundling is the only solution I can see to help
avoid having people from using the difference between old names and new names
for security attacks.<br>
<br>
Take this case:<o:p></o:p></p>
<ol start=1 type=1>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'>Suppose someone registered <a
href="http://xn--oxaekj2bcabb8h.com">τιςγλώσσες.com</a> under IDNA2003,
with IP XXX.<o:p></o:p></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'>For anyone using a browser, emailer, etc. both
"<a href="http://xn--oxaekj2bcabb8h.com">τιςγλώσσες.com</a>" and
"<a href="http://xn--oxaekj2bcabb8h.com">τισγλώσσεσ.com</a>"
would go to XXX.<o:p></o:p></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'>Now we switch to IDNA2008<o:p></o:p></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'>Someone else comes in and registers <a
href="http://xn--oxaekj2bcabb8h.com">τιςγλώσσες.com</a>, for IP YYY.<o:p></o:p></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'>Now:<o:p></o:p></li>
</ol>
<ol start=5 type=1>
<ol start=1 type=1>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1'>for people running with current and past
browsers, emailers, and so on, <a href="http://xn--oxaekj2bcabb8h.com">τιςγλώσσες.com</a>
will still go to XXX, while<o:p></o:p></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1'>for those with upgraded browser, emailers,
etc, <a href="http://xn--oxaekj2bcabb8h.com">τιςγλώσσες.com</a> will go
to YYY.<o:p></o:p></li>
</ol>
</ol>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Given that it will take years
before all the client software is replaced, the situation of some people going
to YYY and some going to XXX will be alive for quite a while. During that time,
the difference can be exploited for security attacks -- and will certainly
cause interoperability problems; a huge percentage of Greek words end with an
affected character.<br>
<br>
The only way I can see to mitigate this is with bundling; that the registry
makes sure to every extent possible that XXX = YYY by bundling.<br>
<br>
It doesn't hurt new registrations. So "<a href="http://xn--mxaocnpis3f.com">αριθμούς.com</a>"
automatically gets a bundled "<a href="http://xn--mxaocnpis3f.com">αριθμούσ.com</a>".
It doesn't matter that "αριθμούσ" is linguistically ill-formed (so is
"<a href="http://mydomainname.com">mydomainname.com</a>" - it would
need spaces as "my domain name" to be linguistically correct.
Bundling just ensures that both new and old clients work correctly without
security problems.<br>
<br>
If all the registries bundle all the 4 special cases for the foreseeable
future, then we have a chance of this being just a mess, and not a horrible
mess.<br>
<br clear=all>
Mark<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 13:28, Tina Dam <<a
href="mailto:tina.dam@icann.org">tina.dam@icann.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>On February 21, 2009 1:02 PM,
Vint Cerf wrote:<br>
> Folks,<br>
><br>
> My reading of the consensus is that the WG has discussed and generally<br>
> accepted that Esszett, Final Sigma, ZWJ and ZWNJ can be made PVALID.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal>I completely agree.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>
> For registries that formerly mapped Esszett or Final Sigma, the<br>
> solutions are:<br>
><br>
> 1. block registration of Esszett and Final Sigma at the registry level<br>
> (in which case any former registration forms are still valid but will<br>
> not be found by entering the newly PVALID characters)<br>
><br>
> 2. Bundle Esszett with "ss" and Final Sigma with lower case
("sigma")<br>
> (and do so retrospectively for all prior registrations of the mapped<br>
> forms).<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal>I don't think bundling the two sigma's is a good solution.
One is used in the middle of a word and the other at the end of a word. Not
only are the two characters used differently they also look completely
different. So while it's a registry decision on how to deal with this I don't
think this group should make that bundling recommendation.<br>
<br>
But it strikes me there is a different solution. Open up for allowing the new
characters for registration in a sunrise fashion, where existing registrants
(in whatever workaround solution was applied previously for accommodating
strings that otherwise would have contain either Esszett, Final Sigma, or ZWJ
or ZWNJ) to pre-register using these new chars in replacement or addition to
their current domain name registration.<br>
<span style='color:#888888'><br>
Tina</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>
Idna-update mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Idna-update@alvestrand.no">Idna-update@alvestrand.no</a><br>
<a href="http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/listinfo/idna-update" target="_blank">http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/listinfo/idna-update</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>