<div dir="ltr"><blockquote class="webkit-indent-blockquote" style="margin: 0 0 0 40px; border: none; padding: 0px;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; ">Consensus Call Tranche 3 (Permanence)</span><br>
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<br></div><div style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px"><font face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font:12.0px Helvetica">Place your reply here: </font></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>
<div>NO </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">
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<font face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font:12.0px Helvetica">COMMENTS:</font></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>The proposal makes promises it cannot guarantee. After all, many people expected that once a URL was valid according to IDNA2003, it would be valid forever, but we are with IDNA2008 breaking that for not one or two characters, but many thousands of characters. And for reasons that are not just "<span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; ">serious and unanticipated circumstances". So the wording needs to be fixed.</span></div>
<div><br></div><div>3a. The permanence of Valid URLs is exceedingly important. The major breakage between 2003 and 2008 is containable, but we don't want to have this every 5 years. So we do need to have a strong a language as we can regarding this. So I would say, that the intent of this should be not to change PVALID even in serious and unanticipated consequences. But we must also point out that even this could be overridden in the future by an obsoleting RFC (as above). So I can see wording somethat like the following.</div>
<div><br></div></div><blockquote class="webkit-indent-blockquote" style="margin: 0 0 0 40px; border: none; padding: 0px;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; ">Once a character is classified as PROTOCOL-VALID, it</span><br>
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; ">will remain in that category for all future versions of the</span><br><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; ">protocol and tables unless this RFC is obsoleted. It is anticipated that such reclassification will never occur, given the backwards compatibility problems that would result. (R.10)</span><br>
</blockquote><div class="gmail_quote"><div><br></div><div>3b. The permanence of Invalid URLs is a very different case. It means that we can't fix problems that arise, where for example, minority languages do need to use a character that ended up in the DISALLOWED bucket, because people didn't realize the need at the time the character was encoded.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Implementations MUST be set up to deal with formerly invalid URLs becoming valid all the time -- when the URL contains a code point that was unassigned in one version, and becomes assigned in the next. Making DISALLOWED be permanent does not really help implementations (even if people think it might), and is too strong to allow necessary changes. So in this case, the language needs to be clearer, </div>
<div><br></div></div><blockquote class="webkit-indent-blockquote" style="margin: 0 0 0 40px; border: none; padding: 0px;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; ">Once a character is classified as DISALLOWED, it will normally</span><br>
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; ">remain in that category for all future versions of the protocol</span><br><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; ">and tables. However, if further evidence of the necessity of this character in some language is discovered, it may be moved to PVALID in Tables. Note that UNASSIGNED characters are not, for this</span><br>
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; ">purpose, DISALLOWED. (R.5)</span><br></blockquote><div class="gmail_quote"><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; "><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;"><br></span></div></span></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px"><font face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font:12.0px Helvetica"></font></div><div style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;min-height:14px">
<br></div><div style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;min-height:14px"><br></div><div style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px"><font face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font:12.0px Helvetica">Procedure:</font></div>
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;min-height:14px"><br></div><div style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;min-height:14px"><br></div><div style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">
<font face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font:12.0px Helvetica">There are several decisions that the working group will need to make to confirm consensus. I will send a series of proposals over the next two weeks requesting YES or NO positions on each within a 4 day window. If NO is the response, a reason for that position needs to be stated. If there is a clear consensus based on responses or in the absence of a consensus against each proposal, it will be assumed that the proposal is acceptable to the Working Group.</font></div>
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;min-height:14px"><br></div><div style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;min-height:14px"><br></div><div style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">
<font face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font:12.0px Helvetica">Parenthesized symbols (e.g., "(R.1)") after the items are references to the issues lists where additional explanations can be found, as sent by John Klensin as body parts "idnabis-protocol-issues-rev3" and "idnabis-rationale-issues-03" on a message titled 'Issues lists and the "preprocessing" topic' to the working group on 18 August (<a href="http://www.alvestrand.no/pipermail/idna-update/2008-August/002537.html" target="_blank">http://www.alvestrand.no/pipermail/idna-update/2008-August/002537.html</a>)</font></div>
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;min-height:14px"><br></div><div style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px"><font face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font:12.0px Helvetica">This group needs to get its documents out; it is behind its original schedule. It should be noted that the IDN ccTLD and gTLD selection initiatives at ICANN have already begun so that delay may weaken the IETF's ability to assist in a rational deployment of IDNA.</font></div>
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;min-height:14px"><br></div><div style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;min-height:14px"><br></div><div style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;min-height:14px">
<br></div><div style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px"><font face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font:12.0px Helvetica">(3) Permanence of DISALLOWED and PROTOCOL-VALID</font></div><div style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;min-height:14px">
<br></div><div style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px"><font face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font:12.0px Helvetica">(3.a) Once a character is classified as PROTOCOL-VALID, it</font></div>
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px"><font face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font:12.0px Helvetica">will remain in that category for all future versions of the</font></div><div style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">
<font face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font:12.0px Helvetica">protocol and tables unless serious and unanticipated</font></div><div style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px"><font face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font:12.0px Helvetica">circumstances occur. (R.10)</font></div>
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;min-height:14px"><br></div><div style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px"><font face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font:12.0px Helvetica">(3.b) Once a character is classified as DISALLOWED, it will</font></div>
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px"><font face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font:12.0px Helvetica">remain in that category for all future versions of the protocol</font></div><div style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">
<font face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font:12.0px Helvetica">and tables unless serious and unanticipated circumstances</font></div><div style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px"><font face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font:12.0px Helvetica">occur. Note that UNASSIGNED characters are not, for this</font></div>
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px"><font face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font:12.0px Helvetica">purpose, DISALLOWED. (R.5)</font></div><div style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">
<font face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font:12.0px Helvetica">------------</font></div><div><br></div><br><div> <span style="border-collapse:separate;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style="border-collapse:separate;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style="border-collapse:separate;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style="border-collapse:separate;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style="border-collapse:separate;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><div>
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