<div dir="ltr">In Dublin, we unfortunately never got to a main issue, which was the document structure. What I think we need to do is move all normative material from rationale to protocol, and then:<br><ol><li>In the protocol document in an appendix have a listing of the differences with IDNA2003, with examples of each kind of difference for clarity.</li>
<li>In the rationale document have some explanation of why the differences exist.<br></li></ol>Mark<br>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 3:18 PM, John C Klensin <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:klensin@jck.com">klensin@jck.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<br>
<br>
--On Wednesday, 20 August, 2008 09:55 -0700 Erik van der Poel<br>
<div class="Ih2E3d"><<a href="mailto:erikv@google.com">erikv@google.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> The current IDNA spec is IDNA2003, and it includes the default<br>
> pre-processing steps. Now, IDNA200X is removing (the details<br>
> of) the pre-processing steps, so it ought to explain this<br>
> major difference between IDNA2003 and 200X. This explanation<br>
> can mention the difference between the "default"<br>
> pre-processing (as seen in IDNA2003 and HTML today) and the<br>
> per-locale UI pre-processing such as Turkish dotted/dotless<br>
> uppercase 'i'. If the WG consensus is to leave out any mention<br>
> of UI pre-processing, that is fine, but I think it is quite<br>
> important that IDNA200X explain that the default<br>
> pre-processing of IDNA2003 has been removed.<br>
<br>
</div>I agree and you didn't even need to twist my arm.<br>
<br>
But I have a problem on which I need advice (and, ideally,<br>
specific text or instructions) from the WG. It appears to me<br>
that there are three ways to address the differences between<br>
IDNA2003 and IDNA2008, of which this one and the exclusion of<br>
non-letter/ non-digit characters may be the ones with the<br>
largest impact.<br>
<br>
(1) We explain what IDNA2008 does and ignore IDNA2003<br>
and the differences entirely.<br>
<br>
(2) We explain what IDNA2008 does and note that it is<br>
different but don't explain why.<br>
<br>
(3) We explain the issues with mapping and why we<br>
decided to go from a "map whenever possible so as to<br>
include most Unicode characters somehow" logic to a<br>
"don't map so as to make behavior more understandable<br>
and U-labels and A-labels convertible to each other<br>
without information loss" logic.<br>
<br>
Rationale and its predecessors started with (3). I was told to<br>
tear out the text that seemed critical of IDNA2003, with one key<br>
comment being that type of justification may have been important<br>
in getting where we are but that it is no longer important now<br>
that the WG is chartered, etc. So we are now roughly at (2)<br>
with some of the WG membership still believing that we should be<br>
at (1), i.e., with all explanatory material discarded.<br>
<br>
I'm happy to go back toward (3) --especially since I've never<br>
been convinced that removing those explanations was wise-- but I<br>
have two problems. I don't know how to say "this is different<br>
from IDNA2003 because..." without saying things about the<br>
IDNA2003 strategy that some will construe as critical and<br>
negative. Others might be able to do better. Or it is<br>
possible that what we really need to do is to strengthen (2)<br>
without making a "why this is different" comparison. I've<br>
already done a bit of the latter and hope that I can finish up<br>
the pending drafts and get them posted this weekend (this last<br>
week or so have been terrors for reasons unrelated to IDNA).<br>
But I don't know if the new text will be adequate; if it is not,<br>
I would really appreciate specific suggestions.<br>
<br>
And, at some stage, I think we need Vint to see if he can state<br>
a formal consensus call on whether we want "why this is<br>
different" explanations even if those explanations could be<br>
interpreted as critical of IDNA2003.<br>
<font color="#888888"><br>
john<br>
</font><div><div></div><div class="Wj3C7c"><br>
<br>
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