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<font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier">at the risk of making things more complicated, do any of the definitions </font><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier">manage to proscribe the presence of "-" "-" in the 3rd and 4th position from the left in L2R LDH-conforming strings?</font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier">One assumes that despite the possibility of R2L U-labels, the correct associated A-Label expression is still L2R (?).</font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier"><br></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier">vint</font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier"><br></font><div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier">On Jul 25, 2008, at 6:27 PM, John C Klensin wrote:</font></div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier"><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></font><blockquote type="cite"><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier">This is a very good summary, even though Eric's taxonomy covers</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier">more of the landscape in a little more detail.</font><span class="Apple-converted-space"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier"> </font></span><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier">Comments below.</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier"><br></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier">--On Friday, 25 July, 2008 00:48 +0200 Frank Ellermann</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier"><<a href="mailto:hmdmhdfmhdjmzdtjmzdtzktdkztdjz@gmail.com">hmdmhdfmhdjmzdtjmzdtzktdkztdjz@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier"><br></font></div> <blockquote type="cite"><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier">Tina Dam wrote:</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier"><br></font></div> <blockquote type="cite"><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier">I would be ok with a different term as well, but I don't</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier">have any good ideas.</font></div> </blockquote><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier"><br></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier">The funny thing is that we all like LDH-label as intuitively</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier">clear, and then don't agree on the same definition.</font><span class="Apple-converted-space"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier"> </font></span><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier">Here's</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier">some simplified ASCII art:</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier"><br></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier">+--------------------------------+</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier">| DNS labels (octets)</font><span class="Apple-converted-space"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier"> </font></span><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier">|</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier">|</font><span class="Apple-converted-space"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier"> </font></span><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier">|</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier">| +------------------------------+</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier">| | LDH labels (LDH) </font><span class="Apple-converted-space"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier"> </font></span><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier">|</font><span class="Apple-converted-space"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier"> </font></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier">| |</font><span class="Apple-converted-space"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier"> </font></span><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier">|</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier">| | +----------------------------+ </font><span class="Apple-converted-space"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier"> </font></span><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier">+----------+</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier">| | | A-labels (IDNAbis valid) </font><span class="Apple-converted-space"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier"> </font></span><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier">| <=> | U-labels | </font><span class="Apple-converted-space"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier"> </font></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier">| | +----------------------------+ </font><span class="Apple-converted-space"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier"> </font></span><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier">+----------+</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier">| |</font><span class="Apple-converted-space"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier"> </font></span><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier">|</font><span class="Apple-converted-space"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier"> </font></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier">| +------------------------------+</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier">|</font><span class="Apple-converted-space"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier"> </font></span><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier">|</font><span class="Apple-converted-space"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier"> </font></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier">+--------------------------------+</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier"><br></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier">What I see is "A-labels are a proper subset of LDH-labels,</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier">as specified in IDNAbis.</font><span class="Apple-converted-space"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier"> </font></span><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier">LDH-labels are a proper subset</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier">of DNS labels, as specified in RFC 1123" (or similar).</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier"><br></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier">What John sees is "A-labels are one thing, and LDH-labels</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier">are the DNS labels consisting of LDH which are no A-labels,</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier">as specified in IDNAbis".</font></div> </blockquote><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier"><br></font></div> <blockquote type="cite"><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier">IOW John has no name for the union of A-label and LDH-label</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier">in his terminology (the middle box in the ASCII art).</font></div> </blockquote><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier"><br></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier">I have periodically referred to them as LDH-conforming ASCII</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier">strings, or similar terms.</font><span class="Apple-converted-space"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier"> </font></span><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier">But, per Eric's note and my prior</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier">one, that box really consists of (my) LDH-labels, A-labels, plus</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier">some stuff that consists of other strings of ASCII characters.</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier"><br></font></div> <blockquote type="cite"><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier">I've no term for those LDH-labels which are no A-labels in</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier">my terminology (the middle box excluding the innermost box).</font></div> </blockquote><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier"><br></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier">And neither of us have a term for things that fit in the DNS</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier">label box but that are not LDH-conformant.</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier"><br></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier"> </font></span><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier">john</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier"><br></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier">p.s. I sent a note off earlier today whose purpose is to dump</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier">much of this terminology stuff (and the 1123 clarification and</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier">related issues) onto the DNS experts and/or WG(s) or at least</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier">get them to work with us on it.</font><span class="Apple-converted-space"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier"> </font></span><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier">Don't know if that will be</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier">successful, but I'm</font><span class="Apple-converted-space"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier"> </font></span><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier">going to feel better for having tried.</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier"><br></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier">_______________________________________________</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier">Idna-update mailing list</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier"><a href="mailto:Idna-update@alvestrand.no">Idna-update@alvestrand.no</a></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Courier"><a href="http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/listinfo/idna-update">http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/listinfo/idna-update</a></font></div> </blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>