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<DIV><SPAN class=127233620-19062007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Sorry
to be a pain with my lack of knowledge, but two questions:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=127233620-19062007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=127233620-19062007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>1. When you refer to script are you talking about Unicode Script or
ISO 15924 Script or are they one and the same? Define the use of script
here please.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=127233620-19062007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=127233620-19062007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>2. I can see the reason for not having an ALWAYS become a NEVER but
surely there is no reason for the vice versa if future applications can deal
with what was a NEVER it could become an ALWAYS. Or?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=127233620-19062007></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=127233620-19062007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Best
regards</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=127233620-19062007></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=127233620-19062007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Debbie
Garside</FONT> </SPAN></DIV><BR>
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<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> idna-update-bounces@alvestrand.no
[mailto:idna-update-bounces@alvestrand.no] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Mark
Davis<BR><B>Sent:</B> 19 June 2007 20:36<BR><B>To:</B> Harald Tveit
Alvestrand<BR><B>Cc:</B> Patrik Fältström;
idna-update@alvestrand.no<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: New version,
draft-faltstrom-idnabis-tables-02.txt, available<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV><BR><BR>
<DIV><SPAN class=gmail_quote>On 6/13/07, <B class=gmail_sendername>Harald
Tveit Alvestrand</B> <<A
href="mailto:harald@alvestrand.no">harald@alvestrand.no</A>> wrote:</SPAN>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">The
intent of "MAYBE YES" and "MAYBE NO" was:<BR><BR>- ALWAYS: We guarantee that
these codepoints will be permitted in IDNs (at<BR>this level of the
standard).<BR>- NEVER: We guarantee that these codepoints will never be
permitted in IDNs </BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>...<BR><BR>This is precisely the kind of information that belongs in
Patrik's <SPAN class=st id=st name="st">draft</SPAN>. Without a model of the
intended usage, it is impossible to assess the structure of the document. At
least with this kind of information we can begin to sensibly discuss the pros
and cons of the changes over what we had last December. <BR><BR>However, it
needs even more background information and justification. Without knowing what
you and Patrik meant by "Stable", it is also impossible to assess how scripts
should be assigned to that category. After all, Thai is just as stable as
Latin, if not more so, depending on what is meant, yet you exclude Thai but
keep Latin. I was originally guessing that what you mean by "stable" is "has
no characters that are problematic for IDN", but in that case, Latin itself is
not stable because of the potential confusability between "1" and "l". Or, if
confusability is not the issue, then you really need to have some examples of
what exactly are the problems you are trying to prevent. <BR><BR>That is, you
need to provide more information as to what you intend by "stable", with
specific examples of scripts that you consider stable and why, and scripts
that you consider unstable and why. Failing that, I don't see why every
non-archaic script would not be stable, thus obviating the need for your <SPAN
class=st id=st name="st">new</SPAN> 4 distinctions instead of the 3 that we
had up until a few days ago. <BR><BR>Now, I found a hint of what <SPAN
style="FONT-STYLE: italic">may </SPAN>be at issue in Patrik's further
response:<BR><BR>> Secondly, the ALWAYS and NEVER property values are only
allowed on<BR>unproblematic scripts if we have a rough consensus that
the<BR>codepoints will not move from ALWAYS to NEVER or vice versa given
the<BR>algorithm we have to calculate the property value itself.<BR><BR>If
<SPAN style="FONT-STYLE: italic">*that* </SPAN>notion of stability is all that
is being talked about, then it is very easy, and we have done it with a number
of Unicode properties. Define the following:<BR><BR>
<DIV style="MARGIN-LEFT: 40px">Grandfathered_Always to be all characters that
were Always under any previous Unicode version back to some base level (say
5.0)<BR>Grandfathered_Never to be all characters that were Never under any
previous Unicode version back to some base level (say 5.0)<BR></DIV><BR>Then
modify the end of my message of June 13 to be:<BR><BR>
<DIV style="MARGIN-LEFT: 40px">Then derive the following sets:<BR></DIV>
<UL style="MARGIN-LEFT: 40px">
<LI>Always = Grandfathered | (Favored & <SPAN>Functional) |
Grandfathered_Always<BR></SPAN>
<LI><SPAN>Maybe_Yes = !Favored & Functional & !(Always |
Grandfathered_Never)</SPAN><SPAN></SPAN><SPAN></SPAN>
<LI><SPAN>Maybe_Not = (Archaic | (!Favored & !Functional))
</SPAN><SPAN>& !(Always | Grandfathered_Never)</SPAN><SPAN></SPAN>
<LI>Never = everything else<BR></LI></UL><BR>Harald said a bit later:<SPAN
class=q> <BR><BR>> So far, I've seen a lot of hand-wringing about the list
of scripts being<BR>too short, the list of scripts being Europe-centric, the
arguments for<BR>the list of scripts being too weak, the list of scripts
including <BR>worrisome characters (IPA), but I have NOT seen ANY flat
statement<BR>"script XXX is unproblematic and should be
included".<BR><BR></SPAN>My response would be:<BR><BR>Each script other than
the archaic ones is no more problematic overall than the Latin, Greek, and
Cyrillic you have already included. Thus if you include Latin, Greek, and
Cyrillic, you should include them: <BR><BR>Arab
Arabic<BR>Armn Armenian<BR>Bali
Balinese<BR>Beng Bengali<BR>Bopo
Bopomofo<BR>Buhd Buhid<BR>Cans
Canadian_Aboriginal<BR>Cher
Cherokee<BR>Cyrl Cyrillic<BR>Deva
Devanagari<BR>Ethi Ethiopic<BR>Geor
Georgian<BR>Grek Greek <BR>Gujr
Gujarati<BR>Guru Gurmukhi<BR>Hang
Hangul<BR>Hani Han<BR>Hebr
Hebrew<BR>Hira Hiragana<BR>Kana
Katakana<BR>Khmr Khmer<BR>Knda
Kannada<BR>Laoo Lao<BR>Latn
Latin<BR>Limb Limbu<BR>Mlym Malayalam
<BR>Mong Mongolian<BR>Mymr
Myanmar<BR>Nkoo Nko<BR>Orya
Oriya<BR>Sinh Sinhala<BR>Tale
Tai_Le<BR>Talu New_Tai_Lue<BR>Taml
Tamil<BR>Telu Telugu<BR>Tfng
Tifinagh<BR>Thaa Thaana<BR>Thai Thai
<BR>Tibt Tibetan<BR>Yiii
Yi<BR><BR></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>