IDNAbis spec

Tue Nov 3 05:56:07 CET 2009

Hey,

[Quote]: “what if we allow diacritics on the domain name then a domain name like

مايكروسوفت.شركة

Will be different than the

مَايكروسوفت.شركة

Because in the second one there is a diacritic on the first letter.

Although this diacritic is implicit in the first one. 

So this might cause a lot of problems in the domain names registration and owner claims.” [/Quote]

Well this has been answered in “NSM flow?”

[Quote]

  “Moreover, for the displaying order of the labels of a domain name I have tried the following hypothetical domain names:

Husni.حاسب.شركة
حسني.حاسب.شركة
husni.حاسب.com
حسني.computer.شركة
حسني.حاسب.com
husni.computer.شركة
husni.computer.com

The following is an image of the network order from right to left  for Arabic of the above: 

It is clear that when we use two consecutive RTL labels separated by dots and followed by one LTR label the display order does not look as it 
should. The same is true that when we use two consecutive LTR labels separated by dots and followed by one RTL. The question is should we allow such confusion?”[/Quote]

from draft-ietf-idnabis-bidi-06

[Quote] 

“   o  The sequence of labels should be consistent with network order.

      This proved impossible - a domain name consisting of the labels

      (in network order) L1.R1.R2.L2 will be displayed as L1.R2.R1.L2 in

      an LTR context.  (In an RTL context, it will be displayed as

      L2.R2.R1.L1).”

[/Quote]

Well this problem was expected to happen, IDNA uses a UAX#9 Bidi algorithm version-like where some rules have been removed.

AbdulRahman,

From: idna-update-bounces at alvestrand.no [mailto:idna-update-bounces at alvestrand.no] On Behalf Of Lisa Dusseault
Sent: 2/Nov/2009 9:38 PM
To: idna-update at alvestrand.no
Subject: Fwd: IDNAbis spec

I don't think this made it through the topical list moderator queue (thx Paul)

Lisa

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Husni Al-Muhtaseb <muhtaseb at kfupm.edu.sa>
Date: 2009/10/30
Subject: IDNAbis spec
To: idna-update at alvestrand.no, ietf at ietf.org

Dear Team members

I have been asked by Microsoft Arabia to review the internet draft entitled “Internationalized Domain Names in Applications, Revised (IDNABIS)” from the site http://www.ietf.org/dyn/wg/charter/idnabis-charter.html. These drafts include:

The Unicode code points and IDNA <http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-idnabis-tables-07.txt> 
Internationalized Domain Names for Applications (IDNA): Background, Explanation, and Rationale <http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-idnabis-rationale-14.txt> 
Internationalized Domain Names in Applications (IDNA): Protocol <http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-idnabis-protocol-17.txt> 
Right-to-left scripts for IDNA <http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-idnabis-bidi-06.txt> 
Internationalized Domain Names for Applications (IDNA): Definitions and Document Framework <http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-idnabis-defs-12.txt> 
Mapping Characters in IDNA <http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-idnabis-mappings-05.txt> 

I have found that there were tremendous efforts behind the work that will lead soon to the use of Domain names in different languages.

I have gone through all available documents in the site. I needed also to revisit previous versions of the Internet-Drafts. However, as my specialization is in Arabic Computing, I have concentrated my study on the document “Right-to-left scripts for IDNA <http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-idnabis-bidi-06.txt> “.

I have reviewed the disallowed code points of Arabic which are listed below. A nice thing I have noticed that most of characters that may cause misleading or confusion have been disallowed as it is stated in The Unicode code points and IDNA <http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-idnabis-tables-07.txt> .

06DD..06DE  

 ARABIC END OF AYAH..ARABIC START OF RUB EL H

FE76..FEFC  

 ARABIC FATHA ISOLATED FORM..ARABIC LIGATURE

FE70..FE72  

 ARABIC FATHATAN ISOLATED FORM..ARABIC DAMMAT

06D4        

 ARABIC FULL STOP

FE74        

 ARABIC KASRATAN ISOLATED FORM

0675..0678  

 ARABIC LETTER HIGH HAMZA ALEF..ARABIC LETTER

FBD3..FD3F  

 ARABIC LETTER NG ISOLATED FORM..ORNATE RIGHT

FD92..FDC7  

 ARABIC LIGATURE MEEM WITH JEEM WITH KHAH INI

FD50..FD8F  

 ARABIC LIGATURE TEH WITH JEEM WITH MEEM INIT

0600..0603  

 ARABIC NUMBER SIGN..ARABIC SIGN SAFHA

066A..066D  

 ARABIC PERCENT SIGN..ARABIC FIVE POINTED STA

06E9

 ARABIC PLACE OF SAJDAH

061B        

 ARABIC SEMICOLON

0640

 ARABIC TATWEEL

061E..061F  

 ARABIC TRIPLE DOT PUNCTUATION MARK..ARABIC Q

0606..060F  

 ARABIC-INDIC CUBE ROOT..ARABIC SIGN MISRA

The new algorithmic model used in IDNA2008 allows the label when the final character in a right to left string requires a combining mark in order to be correctly represented. It allows diacritics to be included as they are of type NSM (None spacing Marks). It seems this is important in some right to left languages such as Yiddish and Dhivehi. However, allowing Arabic diacritics marks (064b – 065E), which are parts of the non spacing marks, in domain names will be problematic in the future and might cause a lot of confusion in domain names. The question could be simplified as to do want a label in a domain name such as وردة to be different from a label such as وَردة? The question in different words that if we allow diacritics on the domain name then a domain name like
مايكروسوفت.شركة
Will be different than the
مَايكروسوفت.شركة
Because in the second one there is a diacritic on the first letter.
Although this diacritic is implicit in the first one. 
So this might cause a lot of problems in the domain names registration and owner claims.

Moreover, for the displaying order of the labels of a domain name I have tried the following hypothetical domain names:

Husni.حاسب.شركة
حسني.حاسب.شركة
husni.حاسب.com
حسني.computer.شركة
حسني.حاسب.com
husni.computer.شركة
husni.computer.com

The following is an image of the network order from right to left  for Arabic of the above:

It is clear that when we use two consecutive RTL labels separated by dots and followed by one LTR label the display order does not look as it should. The same is true that when we use two consecutive LTR labels separated by dots and followed by one RTL. The question is should we allow such confusion?

As I have introduced earlier, it an excellent effort towards the internationalization of domain names.

Thank you and best wishes

Husni Al-Muhtaseb
http://faculty.kfupm.edu.sa/ics/muhtaseb/

From: Mamdouh Najjar [mailto:mamdouhn at microsoft.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 9:08 AM
To: muhtaseb at kfupm.edu.sa
Cc: Nasser Kettani
Subject: RE: IDNAbis spec

Salam Husni

I hope you are well and greetings for the new school year.  Have you had the chance to look at the content?  Any feed back?

Best regards,

Mamdouh

From: muhtaseb at kfupm.edu.sa [mailto:muhtaseb at kfupm.edu.sa] 
Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 6:32 PM
To: Mamdouh Najjar
Cc: Nasser Kettani; Khaled Al-Dhaher
Subject: RE: IDNAbis spec

Dear Dr. Mamdouh

Assalamu Alaikum and Eid Mubarak

Thank you for your trust. I’ll look at the contents of the link and I’ll come back to you soon.

Thank you

Regards

Husni

From: Mamdouh Najjar [mailto:mamdouhn at microsoft.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 5:40 PM
To: muhtaseb at kfupm.edu.sa
Cc: Nasser Kettani; Khaled Al-Dhaher
Subject: IDNAbis spec

Salam Husni

Eid Mubarak

Thank you for your time today to discuss the IDN Arabic specs and your readiness to work with us on this important issue.  I’m attaching the link for your review please.

The active drafts, WG mail reflector, charter and other information are located here  http://www.ietf.org/dyn/wg/charter/idnabis-charter.html

I would like you also to meet Nasser Kettani who is the Regional Standard Officer (RSO) and who will work with you on this activity.  Please let me know if you need any support.

Kind regards,

Mamdouh

+966 559 559 980

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Ietf mailing list
Ietf at ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf

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