IDNs in the root

[Tina Dam]

I completely agree Patrick, in fact I can't see why an submission to 'Last Call' can't be done right away!

Now, I would always argue for getting things as perfect as possible - with the IDNA protocol the mere fact that we are still discussing a few things after years of discussion is to me a sign that we will never reach 100%. Compromises had to be done. Why? Well please take a look at the Internet community, they have asked for IDNs for years now. While I'm sure there are a lot on opinions on how ICANN's work has been handled in implementation of those processes that will make IDN TLDs a reality, one thing is certain: is has been done listening to the community's needs!

If you don't think there are enough safety provisions, well then either get them into the protocol now or send them to ICANN now.

The alternative and/or waiting much longer is a pretty dark future as far as I can tell and I would rather not have any of us getting closer to that than we already are.

Tina


> -----Original Message-----
> From: idna-update-bounces at alvestrand.no [mailto:idna-update-
> bounces at alvestrand.no] On Behalf Of Patrik Fältström
> Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 11:17 PM
> To: idna-update at alvestrand.no
> Subject: Re: IDNs in the root
> 
> As editor of one of the documents in this wg, I have of course been in
> contact with the broader Internet Community to seek input, and not
> only been looking at active participants in the wg, or postings on the
> list. Specifically as a lot of the discussions that only is mentioned
> here on this list in reality have taken place elsewhere (for example
> in the discussions surrounding the IDN process in ICANN and the
> various (more or less) ad-hoc groups connected with it). Based on
> those discussions, I have seen the same indications as Harald and Tina
> (and other people that have mentioned trouble with the IDNAv2
> limitations).
> 
> As a participant in the wg, I have in earlier messages related to the
> IDNAv2 proposal from Paul stated that I do not see any ability to move
> forward without any regular expressions as part of the standard, but
> if we where to remove them, the IDNA2008 proposal I think is still
> much better as it is agnostic of the version of Unicode used.
> 
> I see no future for the IDNAv2 proposal. It cements many of the
> problems we have with IDNA2003, and we will be forced to fix them
> anyway, with a later version of IDNA, when we have many more IDN-
> domain names registered. This I also say with my experience as one of
> the persons that worked a lot with IDNA2003 (as did Paul and others as
> you know).
> 
> Therefore, I once again state my view that is the same as Haralds,
> that we are almost done. I at the same time want to thank Mark for the
> list of "outstanding issues".
> 
> That I think more than anything show how close we are.
> 
> This discussion by itself has also delayed the hand over of the
> documents to the AD for IETF last call, I say although I am at the
> same time strongly in favor of rising issues earlier rather than
> later. So I also want to thank Paul for brining up the issues he has
> now, and not later. The later issues are rised, the more destructive
> they are for the collaboration in the IETF and the ability to create
> effective standards.
> 
>      Patrik
> 
> On 23 jan 2009, at 08.05, Tina Dam wrote:
> 
> > For obvious reasosns I completely agree with Harald, and would like
> > to add one more thing:
> >
> > Registration under these TLDs will also be affected, so its not just
> > the TLDs.
> >
> > About which scripts people are interested in, the full overview will
> > be posted, hopefully next week, when I return from a meeting in
> > europe (currently). But meanwhile I don't think there is any harm in
> > saying that there in fact is an interest expressed in a yiddish
> > string.
> >
> > Tina
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: idna-update-bounces at alvestrand.no <idna-update-
> bounces at alvestrand.no
> > >
> > To: Paul Hoffman <phoffman at imc.org>
> > Cc: idna-update at alvestrand.no <idna-update at alvestrand.no>
> > Sent: Thu Jan 22 20:37:02 2009
> > Subject: Re: IDNs in the root
> >
> > Paul Hoffman skrev:
> >> At 4:55 AM +0100 1/23/09, Harald Tveit Alvestrand wrote:
> >>
> >>> For one thing, that makes "IDNAv2" likely to be finished well
> >>> after IDNs have been introduced in the root.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Serious question: why is this at all relevant? Is there any IDNs
> >> that are meant to be entered in the root that will have a different
> >> encoding under IDNA2003 than under IDNA2008 or contain characters
> >> that make them unrenderable in IDNA2003?
> >>
> >>
> > There are many strings for which registration could be requested
> under
> > IDNA2003 that cannot be registered under IDNA2008 (the symbols being
> > the
> > most prominent example). ICANN is aghast at the idea of having to
> > allow
> > something to be registered in the root and then having to take it out
> > when the rules change.
> >
> > I haven't seen anyone claiming that they want to register a TLD in
> > Dhivehi or Yiddish (the two BIDI cases where it matters that 2003 is
> > more restrictive than 2008). But there are people arguing for
> > registration of a TLD with a ZWNJ in it.
> >
> > With the relatively restrictive rules that ICANN has put in place,
> > it's
> > not likely that any problems will be caused - but one reason for
> ICANN
> > having to specify the restrictive rules in full rather than saying
> > "stuff legal under 2008 is OK" and adding some short list of
> > restrictions is that 2008 is not finished.
> >
> > In my ICANN role, I want to have stable rules that I can reference,
> > and
> > the never-ending IDNA wrangling gives the impression of instability,
> > even though the actual changes we're discussing in allowed strings at
> > this stage of 2008's development range from small to microscopic.
> > ("IDNAv2" is another matter. It means we have to do it all over
> > again.)
> >
> >                        Harald
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