Consensus Call Tranche 8 (Character Adjustments)

[Vint Cerf]

I am traveling in Oregon at the moment and will try to summarize the  
state of responses tonight to the latest set of consensus questions.

I confess that I share Patrik's concern for disregarding a consensus  
process from a specific language expert group.

vint


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On Oct 16, 2008, at 1:33 AM, Patrik Fältström wrote:

> On 16 okt 2008, at 06.08, Martin Duerst wrote:
>
>> I had a look at the document again. For those points of the
>> proposal where it disagrees with what we currently have,
>> the words "not needed" are used. Nothing that even comes
>> close to words such as "harmful", "confusing", or the like
>> appears for points 1 and 2. The word "confusing appears for
>> point 3, Hangul Compatibility Jamo, which we already disallow.
>>
>> Of course writing and reading such documents is always frought
>> with difficulties, but I don't think that the hypothesis that
>> the authors understand the difference between "we don't need
>> them" and "these are dangerous" is far-fetched.
>
> Fair. Thanks Martin for taking time to read this document again.
>
> This because I think having an IETF wg make a decision about consensus
> that is _against_ a proposal from a formal organisation like NIDA that
> say they have been running a consensus driven process in Korea with
> participants from Korean Agency for Technology and Standards (National
> Body of ISO and IEC), the National Institute of The Korean Language,
> etc, is serious.
>
> If we had a similar situation in Sweden where IETF ruled against what
> similar consensus driven process in Sweden about Swedish...well, I
> would start asking serious questions on how consensus in IETF was
> reached.
>
> So, I am as editor of the tables document neutral in the issue. I just
> envision that for 8.c, we will get questions given what the consensus
> seems to be at the moment.
>
>     Patrik
>
>> Regards,    Martin.
>>
>> At 04:31 08/10/16, Patrik F舁tstr� wrote:
>>>
>>> On 15 okt 2008, at 20.36, Andrew Sullivan wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 08:20:05PM +0200, Patrik F舁tstr� wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Understood. Note that if we look at the proposals eszett and the
>>>>> one
>>>>> from korea, the eszett is an exception, while the korean proposal
>>>>> uses
>>>>> the Unicode properties.
>>>>
>>>> Hmm.  If this is the case (and at least in the Korean proposal, my
>>>> notes make me think that we have a different meaning of "Unicode
>>>> properties" in the above, but I'm certainly not willing to assert
>>>> that
>>>> I'm right), then I'm even more confused than I at first thought I
>>>> was.
>>>> So I'm going to shut up about this topic, but I _still_ have to say
>>>> "no", since the consensus call said explictly that silence would be
>>>> counted as support (and I obviously can't support what I don't
>>>> understand).
>>>
>>> I understand your statement, and view.
>>>
>>> I am just confused over the reaction in general from people.
>>>
>>> I have attached the Korean proposal, which in short is:
>>>
>>> 1. Add Hangul Jamo to blocks to disallow (i.e. "2.1.4  
>>> IgnorableBlocks
>>> (D)")
>>> 2. Add two codepoints (that is "Inherited", but not DISALLOWED by
>>> other means) to DISALLOWED
>>>
>>> I.e. I must correct myself when I said that the proposal is only
>>> using
>>> Unicode properties. I can not (but I am tired...) see how to catch
>>> the
>>> two Bangjeom codepoints U+302E and U+302F without using exceptions.
>>>
>>> People interested in this discussion should also re-read the  
>>> messages
>>> from Ken where he explain his view is that this is something that
>>> should be expressed by a registry policy.
>>>
>>> Message-Id: <200807281913.m6SJDpL01810 at birdie.sybase.com>
>>> Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 12:13:51 -0700 (PDT)
>>>
>>>   Patrik
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Idna-update mailing list
>>> Idna-update at alvestrand.no
>>> http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/listinfo/idna-update
>>
>>
>> #-#-#  Martin J. Du"rst, Assoc. Professor, Aoyama Gakuin University
>> #-#-#  http://www.sw.it.aoyama.ac.jp        
>> mailto:duerst at it.aoyama.ac.jp
>>
>>
>
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