Return-Path: Received: from murder ([unix socket]) by eikenes.alvestrand.no (Cyrus v2.2.8-Mandrake-RPM-2.2.8-4.2.101mdk) with LMTPA; Wed, 13 Jul 2005 06:03:01 +0200 X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by eikenes.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id D03C761B4D for ; Wed, 13 Jul 2005 06:03:01 +0200 (CEST) Received: from eikenes.alvestrand.no ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (eikenes.alvestrand.no [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24785-01 for ; Wed, 13 Jul 2005 06:02:57 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: domain auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.4.8 Received: from megatron.ietf.org (megatron.ietf.org [132.151.6.71]) by eikenes.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FDAE61AF5 for ; Wed, 13 Jul 2005 06:02:55 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DsYOR-0003w4-8g; Tue, 12 Jul 2005 23:58:43 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DsYOO-0003vR-I2 for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 12 Jul 2005 23:58:40 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA23312 for ; Tue, 12 Jul 2005 23:58:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from montage.altserver.com ([63.247.74.122]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DsYqj-0003mA-2F for ltru@ietf.org; Wed, 13 Jul 2005 00:27:57 -0400 Received: from ver78-2-82-241-91-24.fbx.proxad.net ([82.241.91.24] helo=jfc.afrac.org) by montage.altserver.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.44) id 1DsYOM-0003MT-1W; Tue, 12 Jul 2005 20:58:38 -0700 Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.2.20050713043215.048b4eb0@mail.afrac.org> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 05:14:01 +0200 To: "Debbie Garside" , "'Debbie Garside'" , "'Peter Constable'" , From: r&d afrac Subject: RE: [Ltru] Jersey JE and Guernsey GG Country Codes In-Reply-To: <200507122144.j6CLiPv9018403@smtp-los02.proxy.aol.com> References: <200507122127.j6CLRQ7O000601@smtp-los04.proxy.aol.com> <200507122144.j6CLiPv9018403@smtp-los02.proxy.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - montage.altserver.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - afrac.org X-Scan-Signature: fec852dbea6d068499ed3250edf328e2 Cc: X-BeenThere: ltru@lists.ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0843395266==" Sender: ltru-bounces@lists.ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@lists.ietf.org X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at alvestrand.no --===============0843395266== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_19756628==.ALT" --=====================_19756628==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 23:44 12/07/2005, Debbie Garside wrote: >So... are you telling me that I have to go back to Tony (Blair) and tell him >his letter won't be necessary...? ;-) Debbie, ad-hominem! If Tony wants to discuss his position on the Jersey and Gernesey langtags, please have him joining this list. This may look as a troll. But it is not. It is a perfect example of the inadequation of IETF to address issues which are beyond its scope. Sometime, a langtag user will have a conflict between an IETF Internet defined conception and legal definition of Her Gacious Majesty Government. And will lose time, money, credibility, etc. due to that. The Draft will lose credibility. Hardly what the authors want. The Draft should start with the following warning (just after the Introduction): "The IANA is not in the business of deciding what is and what is not an appropriate correlation between a language, a script, a country and other cultural or human language elements as they may appear necessary. The selection of ISO 639 to obtain a language/script/country correlating table and rules was made with the knowldge that ISO has procedures to determine which resulting language tags should be and should not be on such a list. It happens that ISO 639 does not provide yet such a list. So, however the IANA is not in the business of deciding if this is a lack ISO still has to address or if it is a deliberated authoritative decision, the IANA intends to extend the possibilities offered to Internet protocols and applications users by RFC 3066. This Memo describes under which technical terms this may be done, notwithstanding the national or international legal limitations which may be imposed elsewhere to the users." "The IANA adheres to the language equal opportunity declaration: "The purpose of technology isn't to insure that everybody should have an equal opportunity whatever his language, its purpose is to allow this goal. "This document's aim is to allow everyone to freely share the cultural life of the Internet community, to enjoy using its solutions on an equal linguistic, cultural, technical, economical and commercial basis, and to share into the benefits of the technology and its advancements without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status and education. Therefore the goal is to build a common technical standard for all people and all nations to be used or embedded in any technical solution, without any limitation resulting from the script, the language, the referent or the context of their technical environment. "Taking into account the granular nature and the diversity of the world's digital ecosystem as well as the requirements of its technical convergence, the authors of this technical memorandum strongly advocate its free, secure and stable implementation to serve the rights and freedoms of its users at an international, national and personal level, in the respect of sovereign laws and jurisdiction of each State, of the empowerment of local cultures, and of its intergovernance by subsidiarity in any of the public or private, community or individual contexts. " (text to be revised along with its review by the members of the global on-line community in preparation of the Tunis declaration) jfc > > -----Original Message----- > > From: ltru-bounces@lists.ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces@lists.ietf.org] On > > Behalf Of Debbie Garside > > Sent: 12 July 2005 22:28 > > To: 'Peter Constable'; ltru@ietf.org > > Subject: RE: [Ltru] Jersey JE and Guernsey GG Country Codes > > > > Hmmmm.... > > > > I got this from the W3C site... > > > > "Excerpt from "How to get a country name into ISO 3166-1" > > http://www.din.de/gremien/nas/nabd/iso3166ma/get_name.html: > > > > III. A request for the inclusion of a country name (or the name of > > a dependent area) in ISO 3166-1 must originate from the national > > government of the country or from the national standards body > > of that country. The ISO 3166/MA rejects any request which is > > not accompanied by a written statement from the national goverment > > explicitly agreeing to and supporting the request." > > > > Can you give me a link to a registration application page? > > > > Cheers > > > > Debbie > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Peter Constable [mailto:petercon@microsoft.com] > > > Sent: 12 July 2005 22:08 > > > To: Debbie Garside; ltru@ietf.org > > > Subject: RE: [Ltru] Jersey JE and Guernsey GG Country Codes > > > > > > DIN is no longer the Maintenance Agency for ISO 3166; the MA is ISO > > > Central Secretariat. > > > > > > FYI, from their FAQ: > > > > > > 02: What is the procedure for adding new country names and codes to ISO > > > 3166-1? > > > A: New names and codes are added when the United Nations publish new > > > names in either their Terminology Bulletin Country Names or in the > > > Country and Region Codes for Statistical Use maintained by the United > > > Nations Statistics Division. There is no other way of having new country > > > names included in ISO 3166-1. So if a name is not on these lists it will > > > not get into ISO 3166-1. > > > > > > Cf. http://www.iso.ch/iso/en/prods-services/iso3166ma/index.html > > > > > > > > > > > > Peter Constable > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: ltru-bounces@lists.ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces@lists.ietf.org] > > > On Behalf Of > > > > Debbie Garside > > > > Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 9:48 AM > > > > To: ltru@ietf.org > > > > Subject: [Ltru] Jersey JE and Guernsey GG Country Codes > > > > > > > > FYI > > > > > > > > There is an official proposal, endorsed by UK government to adopt > > > these > > > > codes and it should be available on Friday for submission to DIN via > > > BSI. > > > > > > > > Kind regards > > > > > > > > Debbie Garside > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Ltru mailing list > > > > Ltru@lists.ietf.org > > > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ltru mailing list > > Ltru@lists.ietf.org > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru > > >_______________________________________________ >Ltru mailing list >Ltru@lists.ietf.org >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --=====================_19756628==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 23:44 12/07/2005, Debbie Garside wrote:
So... are you telling me that I have to go back to Tony (Blair) and tell him
his letter won't be necessary...?  ;-)

Debbie,
ad-hominem! If Tony wants to discuss his position on the Jersey and Gernesey langtags, please have him joining this list.

This may look as a troll. But it is not. It is a perfect example of the inadequation of IETF to address issues which are beyond its scope. Sometime, a langtag user will have a conflict between an IETF Internet defined conception and legal definition of Her Gacious Majesty Government. And will lose time, money, credibility, etc. due to that. The Draft will lose credibility. Hardly what the authors want.

The Draft should start with the following warning (just after the Introduction):

"The IANA is not in the business of deciding what is and what is not an appropriate correlation between a language, a script, a country and other cultural or human language elements as they may appear necessary. The selection of ISO 639 to obtain a language/script/country correlating table and rules was made with the knowldge that ISO has procedures to determine which resulting language tags should be and should not be on such a list. It happens that ISO 639 does not provide yet such a list. So, however the IANA is not in the business of deciding if this is a lack ISO still has to address or if it is a deliberated authoritative decision, the IANA intends to extend the possibilities offered to Internet protocols and applications users by RFC 3066. This Memo describes under which technical terms this may be done, notwithstanding the national or international legal limitations which may be imposed elsewhere to the users."

"The IANA adheres to the language equal opportunity declaration:

"The purpose of technology isn't to insure that everybody should have an equal opportunity whatever his language, its purpose is to allow this goal.

"This document's aim is to allow everyone to freely share the cultural life of the Internet community, to enjoy using its solutions on an equal linguistic, cultural, technical, economical and commercial basis, and to share into the benefits of the technology and its advancements without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status and education. Therefore the goal is to build a common technical standard for all people and all nations to be used or embedded in any technical solution, without any limitation resulting from the script, the language, the referent or the context of their technical environment.

"Taking into account the granular nature and the diversity of the world's digital ecosystem as well as the requirements of its technical convergence, the authors of this technical memorandum strongly advocate its free, secure and stable implementation to serve the rights and freedoms of its users at an international, national and personal level, in the respect of sovereign laws and jurisdiction of each State, of the empowerment of local cultures, and of its intergovernance by subsidiarity in any of the public or private, community or individual contexts. "

(text to be revised along with its review by the members of the global on-line community in preparation of the Tunis declaration)

jfc


> -----Original Message-----
> From: ltru-bounces@lists.ietf.org [ mailto:ltru-bounces@lists.ietf.org] On
> Behalf Of Debbie Garside
> Sent: 12 July 2005 22:28
> To: 'Peter Constable'; ltru@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [Ltru] Jersey JE and Guernsey GG Country Codes
>
> Hmmmm....
>
> I got this from the W3C site...
>
> "Excerpt from "How to get a country name into ISO 3166-1"
> http://www.din.de/gremien/nas/nabd/iso3166ma/get_name.html:
>
> III. A request for the inclusion of a country name (or the name of
>      a dependent area) in ISO 3166-1 must originate from the national
>      government of the country or from the national standards body
>      of that country. The ISO 3166/MA rejects any request which is
>      not accompanied by a written statement from the national goverment
>      explicitly agreeing to and supporting the request."
>
> Can you give me a link to a registration application page?
>
> Cheers
>
> Debbie
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Peter Constable [ mailto:petercon@microsoft.com]
> > Sent: 12 July 2005 22:08
> > To: Debbie Garside; ltru@ietf.org
> > Subject: RE: [Ltru] Jersey JE and Guernsey GG Country Codes
> >
> > DIN is no longer the Maintenance Agency for ISO 3166; the MA is ISO
> > Central Secretariat.
> >
> > FYI, from their FAQ:
> >
> > 02: What is the procedure for adding new country names and codes to ISO
> > 3166-1?
> > A: New names and codes are added when the United Nations publish new
> > names in either their Terminology Bulletin Country Names or in the
> > Country and Region Codes for Statistical Use maintained by the United
> > Nations Statistics Division. There is no other way of having new country
> > names included in ISO 3166-1. So if a name is not on these lists it will
> > not get into ISO 3166-1.
> >
> > Cf. http://www.iso.ch/iso/en/prods-services/iso3166ma/index.html
> >
> >
> >
> > Peter Constable
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: ltru-bounces@lists.ietf.org [ mailto:ltru-bounces@lists.ietf.org]
> > On Behalf Of
> > > Debbie Garside
> > > Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 9:48 AM
> > > To: ltru@ietf.org
> > > Subject: [Ltru] Jersey JE and Guernsey GG Country Codes
> > >
> > > FYI
> > >
> > > There is an official proposal, endorsed by UK government to adopt
> > these
> > > codes and it should be available on Friday for submission to DIN via
> > BSI.
> > >
> > > Kind regards
> > >
> > > Debbie Garside
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Ltru mailing list
> > > Ltru@lists.ietf.org
> > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ltru mailing list
> Ltru@lists.ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru


_______________________________________________
Ltru mailing list
Ltru@lists.ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru
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