Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.2.20050708125414.03fef8f0@mail.afrac.org>
Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2005 13:02:24 +0200
To: "Mark Davis" <mark.davis@jtcsv.com>,
	"John.Cowan" <jcowan@reutershealth.com>,
	"Dylan N. Pierce" <dylanpierce@megared.net.mx>
From: r&d afrac <rd@afrac.org>
Subject: Re: [Ltru] Private Use Tags
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At 06:29 08/07/2005, Mark Davis wrote:
>I do not think that this line is at all as clear as you would think. The
>notion of a locale is very fuzzy: most of the items that people associat=
e
>with it, other than language, are merely guesses. The currency of a
>transaction is often completely independent of the user's location; I co=
uld
>be buying something on the web and pay euros, or pounds, or dollars, no
>matter where I live. The same goes for timezones, even units. (We all
>remember the rocket that failed because two people in the same country w=
ere
>interpreting a number as being in different units). It is a fairly rough
>approximation to assume the values of these from seeing en_UK (or en-UK)=
. Of
>course, that may be all that the information that someone has, but you c=
an't
>read into it more than a good guess. And other areas get fuzzy as well. =
Is
>sort order a language or a locale issue?
>
>The language is clearly a core part of what people mean by 'locale', and
>anything beyond that is pretty speculative. A real locale id shades off =
into
>something more like a bundle of preferences.
>
>But this is all pretty off-topic; I really hope we can focus on just the
>items we need to finish off to get this thing to last call.

Mark,
the whole issue is that a langtag is to identify something. These=20
somethings are not defined in your Draft. The Last Call will identify tha=
t=20
among others, and will fail again. Unless the game consists for you too, =
in=20
accumulating the failed Last Call and draining competences from all over=20
the world in a waste of time, please identify:

- each subtag you use
- their correlations into the subtag you propose - which becomes more and=
=20
more different from the lose catch all RFC 3066 lack of definition. RFC=20
3066 was general and never said as you keep adding "this of off-topic". A=
ll=20
what I ask is you say what is on topic.

This at least would help Randy's mails about "stay on topic" clearer.
Or in 2007 we will still be discussing about the 8th Last Call. Am I the=20
only one to truely want to see something matching the charter being deliv=
ered.

The charter does not say to _narrow_ the scope but to address the problem=
s,=20
which are that the scope is not large enough and not structured enough to=
=20
support all the encountered needs.

jfc






>=E2=80=8EMark
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "John.Cowan" <jcowan@reutershealth.com>
>To: "Dylan N. Pierce" <dylanpierce@megared.net.mx>
>Cc: <ltru@ietf.org>
>Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 11:52
>Subject: Re: [Ltru] Private Use Tags
>
>
> > Dylan N. Pierce scripsit:
> >
> > > According to Sun's own documentation, "The language argument is a v=
alid
> > > ISO Language Code. These codes are the lower-case, two-letter codes=
 as
> > > defined by ISO-639....  The country argument is a valid ISO Country
> > > Code. These codes are the upper-case, two-letter codes as defined b=
y
> > > ISO-3166." And its purpose is so that applications can decide in wh=
at
> > > language to serve the documents (in this case, UI output). In other
> > > words, the difference between what they're doing and what we're doi=
ng
> > > is, at best, cosmetic;
> >
> > In fact not; the difference is deep and conceptual.  The country subt=
ag
> > in a locale ID serves an entirely different purpose from the one in a
> > language tag.  Rather than meaning "The variant of the language commo=
nly
> > used in country X", it means "Using the various notational and cultur=
al
> > conventions of country X".
> >
> > For example, the Mohawk language (ISO 639-2 code 'moh') is spoken on
> > both sides of the U.S.-Canadian border, but does not come in national
> > variants "moh-US" and "moh-CA"; though well-formed and valid per RFC
> > 3066, these tags are not useful.  However, for someone using a comput=
er
> > in Mohawk, the locale IDs "moh_US" and "moh_CA" are eminently useful:
> > the first signals a desire for U.S. dollars and Fred Flintstone units=
,
> > the second a desire for Canadian dollars and metric units.
> >
> > Similarly, "en-DE" does not make much sense, as there is no German
> > national variant of the English language (jokes about "Ve haf
> > vays!" aside), but "en_DE" represents using the English language in a
> > German national context, with euros and metric units and German-style
> > postal addresses.
> >
> > Indeed, in principle there is no reason why a locale ID like "en-us_D=
E"
> > can't be useful:  this says that the context is still euros, etc.,
> > but the dictionary now contains specifically American English.
> >
> > --
> > Newbies always ask:                             John Cowan
> >   "Elements or attributes?                      http://www.ccil.org/~=
cowan
> > Which will serve me best?"
>http://www.reutershealth.com
> >   Those who know roar like lions;               jcowan@reutershealth.=
com
> >   Wise hackers smile like tigers.                   --a tanka, or ext=
ended
>haiku
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ltru mailing list
> > Ltru@lists.ietf.org
> > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru
> >
> >
>
>
>
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