Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.2.20050317042622.02853270@mail.jefsey.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 05:07:51 +0100
To: "Mark Davis" <mark.davis@jtcsv.com>,
	"IETF Languages Discussion" <ietf-languages@iana.org>,
	"Michael Everson" <everson@evertype.com>
From: "JFC (Jefsey) Morfin" <jefsey@jefsey.com>
In-Reply-To: <2f8001c52a4f$5ee3fd70$477d3009@sanjose.ibm.com>
References: <022b01c52a39$f1d1ad00$477d3009@sanjose.ibm.com>
	<p06110403be5e1bb231ed@[10.0.1.2]>
	<2f8001c52a4f$5ee3fd70$477d3009@sanjose.ibm.com>
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Subject: Re: zh-Hant-xx, zh-Hans-xx
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Sender: ietf-languages-bounces@alvestrand.no
Errors-To: ietf-languages-bounces@alvestrand.no

Dear Mark,
I see that ad-hominem and disclosure of private mails continue.
And that you make yourself part of it!

Since we are in this mood: this gives me the opportunity
to read two interesting points from James.

1) he keeps going with his fairy tale. This may not help him.

    Jiankiang has perfectly understood that I was not saying
    that James was not a good source to talk about Chinese
    or Malaysian. He also perfectly understood that we were
    not talking of IDNs. And that I though counterproductive
    to call on a non-Chinese citizen to document the IANA
    registration of the Chinese language by Microsoft.

2) he also says - and he certainly is THE specialist of
    IDNA that this list has little to do with IDN. Thanks!
     This is the consistency of this "little" (and not that
     "nothing" Peter fully used in a mail) I make sure is
     not forgotten.

jfc



At 18:41 16/03/2005, Mark Davis wrote:
>Here is the message from James. There must have been some problem in email,
>since you are included in the address list.
>
>I don't know what else you want as far as concensus. I strongly favor these,
>and a number of others have spoken out in favor of them.
>
>Mark
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "James Seng" <james@seng.cc>
>To: "Michael Everson" <everson@evertype.com>
>Cc: "Peter Constable" <petercon@microsoft.com>; "James Seng"
><jseng@pobox.org.sg>; <lee@cnnic.cn>; "Mark Davis" <mark.davis@unicode.org>;
><mao@cnnic.cn>; "Yao Jiankang" <yaojk@cnnic.cn>
>Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 11:48
>Subject: Re: Status of zh-* proposals
>
>
>Jiankang,
>
>The purpose of zh-* proposals started because Mark Davis have a whole
>set of Chinese documents needed to be encoded but does not fall exactly
>into zh-tw, zh-cn, etc.
>
>This was 2-3 years back and I believe several Unicode experts have been
>consulted - check with Joe Zhang.
>
>In short, I support the current zh-* into the IANA registries. The
>purpose for those tags have little to do with IDN.
>
>And I agree with Michael - Morfin does not know what he is talking
>about.
>
>ps: I am still the SC2 representative for Singapore and also for WG2
>and IRG and for Morfin to suggest I am not qualified, he is obviously
>out of line.
>
>-James Seng
>
>On 08-Mar-05, at AM 03:35, Michael Everson wrote:
>
> > Dear Yao Jiankang,
> >
> > At 03:16 +0800 2005-03-08, Yao Jiankang wrote:
> >> Dear JEF and Michael,
> >>
> >>    Thanks a lot for JEF's comments. It is unwise to register
> >> Microsoft as the
> >> Referent of the Chinese languages in the IANA tables.
> >
> > I'm sorry to say so, but Mr Morfin doesn't have any idea what he is
> > talking about. I am copying three experts here who *can* talk sensibly
> > about these matters.
> >
> >> CNNIC under Chinese Academy of Sciences is authorized by state
> >> government and a non-profit organization which will be the best
> >> represenative in IANA for Chinese language tables.
> >>
> >> Now I am specilizing IDN and Internationalization of email address
> >> which are
> >> also have relative to Chinese Language Tables.
> >>
> >>    I also copy the letter to MAO Wei (General Director of CNNIC)and
> >> LEE Xiaodong
> >> (leader of technic department of CNNIC)for information.
> >>
> >>    Thanks a lot!
> >>
> >>
> >> Yao Jiankang
> >> CNNIC
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Ã"ÃšÃ„ÃºÂµÃ„Ã€Â´ÃÃ…Ã­ÃÃ"Ã¸Â¾-ÃŒÃ¡ÂµÂ½:
> >>> From: "JFC (Jefsey) Morfin" <jefsey@jefsey.com>
> >>> Reply-To:
> >>> To: michael Everson <everson@evertype.com>
> >>> Subject: Re: Status of zh-* proposals
> >>> Date:Sun, 06 Mar 2005 05:31:33 +0100
> >>>
> >>> On 22:13 05/03/2005, Michael Everson said:
> >>>  >At 13:01 -0800 2005-03-05, Doug Ewell wrote:
> >>>  >>I was wondering about the status of the 10 proposals submitted a
> >>> month
> >>>  >>ago by Mark Davis, for tags of the form zh-{Hans, Hant}-{CN, HK,
> >>> MO, SG,
> >>>  >>TW}.
> >>>  >
> >>>  >>In any case, it should be possible to demonstrate, using these
> >>> book
> >>>  >>references or otherwise, that (for instance) zh-TW differs from
> >>> zh-HK,
> >>>  >>that both can be and are written in either Hans or Hant, and that
> >>> there
> >>>  >>is a need to tag all four of these situations.
> >>>  >
> >>>  >I would like Mark and Peter to get James Seng's explicit view on
> >>> this, for
> >>>  >instance. He knows a lot about IDN, and about Chinese.
> >>>
> >>>  Dear Michael,
> >>>  I did not want to say this on the public list, but I do not think
> >>> it is a
> >>>  good idea for this list and for the IANA to ask James Seng to talk
> >>> on
> >>>  behalf of China. Nor to register Microsoft as the Referent of the
> >>> Chinese
> >>>  languages in the IANA tables. I even feel both are highly
> >>> inapropriate.
> >>>
> >>>  I gave you the list of the ccTLD Managers for the countries IBM and
> >>>  Microsoft want to be the Referent of the language. I can only
> >>> repeat my
> >>>  strong advise that you contact their ccTLD Managers first, as the
> >>> IESG
> >>>  registration adviser for the IANA language tag registry. By
> >>> courtesy and
> >>>  out of respect for their national sovereignty and for the authority
> >>> as the
> >>>  trustee of their local communities.
> >>>  jfc
> >>>
> >>>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Michael Everson * * Everson Typography *  * http://www.evertype.com
> >
>
>
>
>â€ŽMark
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Michael Everson" <everson@evertype.com>
>To: "IETF Languages Discussion" <ietf-languages@iana.org>
>Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 09:22
>Subject: Re: zh-Hant-xx, zh-Hans-xx
>
>
> > Mark, I do not have a record of discussion from James on this matter,
> > nor have I seen the consensus that I asked for from the IETF list.
> >
> > At 07:07 -0800 2005-03-16, Mark Davis wrote:
> > >You indicated that you were waiting on feedback from James Seng before
> > >approving these. He supplied his feedback, which was in favor. We need to
> > >get a resolution on these, and it is well past the two week period
>specified
> > >in http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3066.txt.
> > >
> > >Could you please let us know whether you are going to approve these or
>not,
> > >so that if you don't, we can begin the appeals process to the IESGas
> > >specified in RFC 3066?
> > >
> > >Mark
> >
> >
> > --
> > Michael Everson * * Everson Typography *  * http://www.evertype.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ietf-languages mailing list
> > Ietf-languages@alvestrand.no
> > http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/listinfo/ietf-languages
> >
>
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