Return-Path: Received: from eikenes.alvestrand.no ([unix socket]) by eikenes.alvestrand.no (Cyrus v2.1.11-Mandrake-RPM-2.1.11-1mdk) with LMTP; Tue, 15 Mar 2005 00:34:57 +0100 X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 Return-Path: Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by eikenes.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6993661BDB for ; Tue, 15 Mar 2005 00:34:57 +0100 (CET) Received: from eikenes.alvestrand.no ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (eikenes.alvestrand.no [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 22257-09 for ; Tue, 15 Mar 2005 00:34:55 +0100 (CET) Received: from megatron.ietf.org (megatron.ietf.org [132.151.6.71]) by eikenes.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8CE861BAE for ; Tue, 15 Mar 2005 00:34:41 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DAz3q-0004JT-9D; Mon, 14 Mar 2005 18:33:22 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DAz3m-0004CP-Pk for ietf@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 14 Mar 2005 18:33:18 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA06408 for ; Mon, 14 Mar 2005 18:33:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from [63.247.76.195] (helo=montage.altserver.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DAz7V-0003kY-5G for ietf@ietf.org; Mon, 14 Mar 2005 18:37:09 -0500 Received: from lns-p19-8-idf-82-249-14-208.adsl.proxad.net ([82.249.14.208] helo=jfc.afrac.org) by montage.altserver.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.44) id 1DAz3k-0003Bu-ND for ietf@ietf.org; Mon, 14 Mar 2005 15:33:17 -0800 Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.2.20050314160909.0310d8a0@mail.jefsey.com> X-Sender: jefsey+jefsey.com@mail.jefsey.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.2.0 Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 16:09:18 +0100 To: ietf@ietf.org From: "JFC (Jefsey) Morfin" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - montage.altserver.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - jefsey.com X-Scan-Signature: 10ba05e7e8a9aa6adb025f426bef3a30 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id SAA06408 Subject: Re: FW: Why? X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF-Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ietf-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ietf-bounces@ietf.org X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at alvestrand.no On 10:46 14/03/2005, Tom Petch said: > > As you know, the value of a network is roughly proportional to > > the square of the participants. > >The value of a network can depend on what is on it, not how many or who.= One >useful (http/ftp/...) server can make a network worth accessing, worth p= aying >for. Even if there was noone else on this Internet, even if I never wan= ted to >e-mail anyone or anything, there are servers worth paying to access. Tom, The formula I use is "value =3D Sigma (users) Sigma (externets) (n.log(n)= -=20 =B5.n**2)" where externets are the links between the members of a class (= IN,=20 CHAOS in the Internet) and the group of hosts accessible to a class (part= ly=20 supported in the Internet through views). It can be reduced to "value =3D= =20 n.log(n)-=B5.n**2". Steve Crocker documented a good mathematical analysis of the n.log(n) par= t,=20 simple thinking makes obvious (see below) and reality proves for 30 years= .=20 However, the =B5.n**2 correction is the key element to understand a real=20 network evolution, and to accompany its development. This because a netwo= rk=20 permits access to a decreasing number of pertinent value added=20 peoples/information (when you got a good answer you have less better=20 answers available - this is a logarithmic degression) while there are as=20 many people hiding them than others - the Metcalf law applies, negatively= .=20 Reeds' law (2**n) is a theoretical formula for the Angels - you need=20 everyone to be of interest and eternity to fully take advantage from it:=20 when you consider we are in a polylogue area (to speak to many though man= y)=20 it becomes the big bang formula. =B5 is the "noise/confusion/pertinence hiding" factor. when =B5 =3D log (= n) / n=20 we reach the state where the is no more value for the users and the=20 externet interest decreases. Managing a network is reducing the relative=20 value of the =B5 factor. But this becomes more difficult as n grows. >I saw the Internet explode in the 1990s because of web servers, not=20 >because n**2 people could now talk to each other, so I think this a=20 >general point.. Yes. The web externet grown. But users understood it as an example of wha= t=20 the Internet made possible. Realizing it, was just a commercial dazibao=20 they partly lost interest (no real decrease the =B5 factor) while their=20 number in increasing reduced the value, hence the blunt decrease in the=20 Internet value. New applications and stabilization reduced =B5, but spam = now=20 is increasing the =B5 factor to a critical level. The solution is to find new externets to reboost the network.=20 Multilingualism may provide 7260 of them. National risk containment and=20 intelligence protection permit to motivate people for 192 of them.=20 Proximity networks for cities, probably 10.000 of them or more. SNHN (sma= ll=20 network, small networks) permits to consider billions of externets. Each = of=20 them with a higher local value, because of a smaller number of users and= =20 probably of a lower =B5 factor (better adequation). Unfortunately, langua= ges=20 are not quoted by IAB RFC 3869, the RFC 3066 issue and IDNs do not help=20 multilingualims based development, the global vision and the disinterest = in=20 WGIG do not help nation/local interest support by IETF, lack of market=20 feed-backs in the Internet standard process leaves SNHN without real supp= ort. The need is for a generalized IPv6 support (and IP permanent ISP=20 independent number for every man/woman/kid, organization and service, and= =20 for all their endbox interfaces, sites, applications) through a transitio= n=20 from the current NRO IPv4/IPv6 deployment, to a worldwide salability. >By contrast, IPv6, like 3G mobile, has nothing worth getting access to;=20 >they are just bits of technology with no applications worth accessing. Oh! yes, there is one: you and me. A stable global network opens the worl= d=20 to the world. The IPv6 IPv4 extension has no problem in supporting it if=20 adequately supported. >Have a look at models of the adoption of technology. Here is where is the problem. IETF - and it is its job - looks for new=20 services, technologies, management rules and procedures to accompany the=20 convergence of IPv4 into a fully deployed IPv6 (but its job is not that=20 deployment). The problem is that the current routing oriented allocation=20 system is an initial deployment approach. We need now a stabilized fully=20 scalable management directory based allocation approach. But this will no= t=20 be carried in one day: we need a transition between them two. This is why a support coopetition rather than a competition between NRO=20 (RIRs) and a "meant to everyone" intergoverned new IP allocation system, = to=20 foster cost decrease, better quality and innovation. Obviously ICANN fail= ed=20 seeing that. I hope the WSIS will come with a solution by the end of the=20 year. But again, this has nothing to do with IPv6, it has to do in reduci= ng=20 the real digital divide which is between those who have a permanent ISP=20 independent IP address and those who have not. jfc _______________________________________________ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf