Return-Path: Received: from murder ([unix socket]) by eikenes.alvestrand.no (Cyrus v2.2.8-Mandrake-RPM-2.2.8-4.2.101mdk) with LMTPA; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 05:30:39 +0200 X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by eikenes.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2649561B59 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 05:30:39 +0200 (CEST) Received: from eikenes.alvestrand.no ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (eikenes.alvestrand.no [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 14690-04 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 05:30:35 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: domain auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.4.8 Received: from megatron.ietf.org (megatron.ietf.org [132.151.6.71]) by eikenes.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D2A661AEF for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 05:30:34 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DRM9T-0001F5-3E; Thu, 28 Apr 2005 23:26:51 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DRM9Q-0001F0-GD for ietf@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 28 Apr 2005 23:26:48 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA23132 for ; Thu, 28 Apr 2005 23:26:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from montage.altserver.com ([63.247.74.122]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DRMMO-0003r3-G2 for ietf@ietf.org; Thu, 28 Apr 2005 23:40:13 -0400 Received: from i01m-116-26.d4.club-internet.fr ([62.35.167.26] helo=jfc.afrac.org) by montage.altserver.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.44) id 1DRM9C-0007Gw-8X; Thu, 28 Apr 2005 20:26:34 -0700 Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.2.20050429051650.05861930@mail.jefsey.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 05:26:27 +0200 To: "Hallam-Baker, Phillip" , "Keith Moore" , "Joe Touch" From: "JFC (Jefsey) Morfin" In-Reply-To: <198A730C2044DE4A96749D13E167AD372501D8@MOU1WNEXMB04.vcorp. ad.vrsn.com> References: <198A730C2044DE4A96749D13E167AD372501D8@MOU1WNEXMB04.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - montage.altserver.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - jefsey.com X-Scan-Signature: 93238566e09e6e262849b4f805833007 Cc: dcrocker@bbiw.net, ietf@ietf.org Subject: RE: Voting (again) X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF-Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ietf-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ietf-bounces@ietf.org X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at alvestrand.no At 00:36 29/04/2005, Hallam-Baker, Phillip wrote: >The way to reduce work is by subsidiarity - devolve decision making to >the lowest possible level. Unfortunately this is not possible. Subsidiairity means the active (if necessary) respect of the duties of others to their own constituents. In this case a WG Chair's constituents are not the members of his group (as you seem to imply). The constituents of all the members of every WG are the users and the system these users trust. This is because this is the Charter of the IETF. Subsidiarity to apply in this case would call for all the IETF Members to share the same vision of the Internet - this could result from a common model of the network - what is not the case (or there would be no problem). The network model is replaced by the non documented vision of the AD and IESG Members. This explains why IETF is better suited to maintain systems (as everyone can observe them and get a similar understanding) rather then innovating or creating. Innovation is delegated to IAB or considered as a long range issue for the IRTF. jfc _______________________________________________ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf