Return-Path: Received: from murder ([unix socket]) by eikenes.alvestrand.no (Cyrus v2.2.8-Mandrake-RPM-2.2.8-4.2.101mdk) with LMTPA; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 15:31:05 +0200 X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by eikenes.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D24661B07 for ; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 15:31:05 +0200 (CEST) Received: from eikenes.alvestrand.no ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (eikenes.alvestrand.no [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 21790-05 for ; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 15:31:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org (megatron.ietf.org [132.151.6.71]) by eikenes.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD39461AF5 for ; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 15:30:56 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DNWCL-0004do-Jt; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 09:21:57 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DNWCI-0004di-K1 for ietf@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 09:21:54 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA17612 for ; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 09:21:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [63.247.76.195] (helo=montage.altserver.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DNWN7-0005h4-G5 for ietf@ietf.org; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 09:33:05 -0400 Received: from lns-p19-1-idf-82-251-65-221.adsl.proxad.net ([82.251.65.221] helo=jfc.afrac.org) by montage.altserver.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.44) id 1DNWCH-0002Sa-1o; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 06:21:53 -0700 Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.2.20050418084738.03fe54a0@mail.jefsey.com> X-Sender: jefsey+jefsey.com@mail.jefsey.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.2.0 Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 13:06:36 +0200 To: Steve Crocker From: "JFC (Jefsey) Morfin" In-Reply-To: <42631029.4000203@stevecrocker.com> References: <198A730C2044DE4A96749D13E167AD372501B0@MOU1WNEXMB04.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <6.1.2.0.2.20050418015242.03144c10@mail.jefsey.com> <42631029.4000203@stevecrocker.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - montage.altserver.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - jefsey.com X-Scan-Signature: 7baded97d9887f7a0c7e8a33c2e3ea1b Cc: ietf@ietf.org Subject: Re: Voting (again) X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF-Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ietf-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ietf-bounces@ietf.org X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at alvestrand.no On 03:40 18/04/2005, Steve Crocker said: >I'm not sure where these history questions come from. The initial >sequence for the Arpanet is documented pretty thoroughly. The first four >nodes were UCLA(1), SRI(2), UCSB(3) and Utah(4). They were installed >approximately one month apart starting Sept 1, 1969. (The exact >installation dates may have varied slightly.) > >Doug Engelbart ran the lab at SRI. Vint, Jon and I were all at UCLA >working in Len Kleinrock's lab. Larry Roberts was the director of the >Information Processing Techniques Office at ARPA. He was the sponsor of >the network, which means he paid for it and oversaw the contracts. BBN >built the IMPs, which was their name for what we would now call routers. > >Over the next few years we all moved around. I went to ARPA. Vint went >to Stanford University. Jon went to work at MITRE in the Washington DC >area and then moved back to California to work for Engelbart at SRI. I >finished at ARPA -- by then renamed to DARPA -- and went to USC-ISI. Jon >left SRI and came down to USC-ISI in a different group and stayed there >until he passed away. Vint left Stanford and came to DARPA. Etc. Dear Steven I understand "[Doug] also saw NLS as a natural to support an online directory of resources, so he proposed a Network Information Center (NIC), which he built up and directed until around 1977, when it spun off as an independent operation." http://www.thocp.net/biographies/engelbart_douglas.html . I am interested in the evolution of the thinking and experience IRT network intergovernance, functions and architecture. History is the only source we have to understand the possible alternatives, why a solution works, etc. For example, I am interested in the funding motivations. You described yours as the dream "of very high quality intercomputer connections and very rich protocols to knit the computers together", while Doug's NIC ad-hoc role decribed in RFC 082 is of great interest, as are its various possible architectures. Also the difference with the other international public deployments, which were usage or operators oriented. Considering and building on all these experiences together, and their implications, could probably address some of the concerns of Phillip. jfc _______________________________________________ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf