Return-Path: Received: from murder ([unix socket]) by eikenes.alvestrand.no (Cyrus v2.2.8-Mandrake-RPM-2.2.8-4.2.101mdk) with LMTPA; Thu, 26 May 2005 02:57:11 +0200 X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by eikenes.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCD1F61B6E for ; Thu, 26 May 2005 02:57:10 +0200 (CEST) Received: from eikenes.alvestrand.no ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (eikenes.alvestrand.no [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 15886-02 for ; Thu, 26 May 2005 02:57:05 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: domain auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.4.8 Received: from megatron.ietf.org (megatron.ietf.org [132.151.6.71]) by eikenes.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 174A861AF1 for ; Thu, 26 May 2005 02:56:59 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Db6cP-0004sJ-4m; Wed, 25 May 2005 20:53:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Db6cM-0004pH-6E for ietf@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 25 May 2005 20:52:58 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA17036 for ; Wed, 25 May 2005 20:52:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from montage.altserver.com ([63.247.74.122]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Db6tf-0000St-1k for ietf@ietf.org; Wed, 25 May 2005 21:10:51 -0400 Received: from [82.241.91.24] (helo=jfc.afrac.org) by montage.altserver.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.44) id 1Db6b8-0006xZ-P7 for ietf@ietf.org; Wed, 25 May 2005 17:51:43 -0700 Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.2.20050526013158.0495f810@mail.jefsey.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 02:50:12 +0200 To: ietf@ietf.org From: "JFC (Jefsey) Morfin" In-Reply-To: <01LOO6TWJIE200004T@mauve.mrochek.com> References: <2005525153951.923652@bbfujip7> <42948627.7020407@stevecrocker.com> <01LOO6TWJIE200004T@mauve.mrochek.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - montage.altserver.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - jefsey.com X-Scan-Signature: 82c9bddb247d9ba4471160a9a865a5f3 Subject: non identified main root cause problems X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF-Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ietf-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ietf-bounces@ietf.org X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at alvestrand.no Brian, you asked about non documented root case problems. The main one I see is the lack of common identification of the ultimate purpose of the network itself. Most in the IETF target a good "end to end" interoperability. Some also target good "technology to technology" interconnection. But the idea that the Internet technology is only another way to help the people in their daily relations seems to be missing. And the idea that languages are human communications protocols to be supported the same as HTTP or SMTP is a few parsec away. I will not dwell on the resulting lack of users participation (those who will use the IETF deliverable): there always is someone to say the IETF is not here to address users needs but that the Internet standard process is only to document a consistent set of propositions of its Members. And that the market will freely decide to use or not. This is addressed by RFC 3774. But I will mention the technical architecture limitations it leads to. When compared with other network technology implementations, the Internet current system is often characterized by architectural parameters defaulted to one. This certainly works well as KISS. If all the users are equal and the same. But it appeals only standardizers who wants to default to that single conception. Who have a limited or no interest and no culture about diversity. With the consequence that they do not appeal on people with a diversity of ideas: they go for grassroots processes. This translates into a single IANA, a single root, a single IPv4 tree, a single IPv6 plan, a single language, a single network culture. And an experimented singular difficulty to address real life issues. As you know, today there is the support of the ccTLDs specific issues, there will be soon the language equal opportunity support, then the reference center distribution, then the middle box and network intelligence integration, etc. Each time there are a few members to say "the system can do it if you set the parameters to two, or even to 256", like for TLDs, but nothing moves, nothing is tested, nothing becomes a proven standard. A typical example is the ICANN ICP-3 Part 5, It calls for DNS experimentation. Experimentation of classes (current parameter is 2, the second class being "CHAOS") and of the possible evolution towards a non single authoritative root file. It quotes the IETF as a possible technical leader. IETF was never interested (what makes ccTLDs to ask now where they should go for the results). Another example is the technology monolingualism. It limits contributions from non-English speaking people, who develop their solutions by their own. This worrying because it may affect the network stability. It aslo limits the conceptual and sometimes the operational scalability of the technology. Mechanisms making the technology independent from languages are missing. The logic, libraries, experience of their deployment are missing. This will make an evolution towards the Multilingual Global NGN more complex. This root cause "monolithic" problem is very well documented, starting by the mere fact it was not identified. jfc _______________________________________________ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf