Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.2.20050626162911.036e6d70@pop.online.fr>
Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 19:29:02 +0200
To: ietf@ietf.org
From: "JFC (Jefsey) Morfin" <jefsey@jefsey.com>
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Cc: sebastien.bachollet@isoc.fr
Subject: IETF63 visa and French attitude
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I received several private mails about Visa, French culture, Officials, 
etc. I will address them here for common benefit.

I copy this mail for information to the Chair of ISOC France (but do not 
expect help from him before this WE as we organise EGENI 2005 this Friday 
(http://egeni.org). I also copy in Bcc a representative of France Telecom 
who will pass it to the proper person in charge (I do not have her mail 
here) and several officials and private persons. If they want to say more 
they may send a mail to Brian Carpenter (IETF Chair).

1. I am no French official. Please check with Embassy or consulates. 
http://www.diplomatie.fr/venir/visas/.

2. I repeat what Brian said for a letter when needed. 
http://www.ietf.org/meetings/invite_letter.html

3. "The French and English versions of this page (French site above) are 
misleading as they do not provide a "attending scientific meeting" category 
-- and thus any choices that most people would take will lead them to 
conclude a visa is required for IETF63".

As I said before chose "business trip".

This Menu is not about everything, but about special cases. Default is 
business, whatever your business can be. In quoted cases you need a Visa to 
document your every days rights. This is a detail which tells a lot about 
the French/American cultural controversies we may have over IETF Drafts: 
please remember our culture is logic Liberty: whatever is not forbidden is 
not only permitted, but free and can be helped. Let be realistic if your 
intents are bad would you chose "Bombing"? Just think of IETF63 as the 
political caucus some here keep telling it is.

4. "Americans can be particularly stupid when it comes to such things as 
the conditions for entering other countries." I do not think so, but only 
16% of them have a passport, so they are globally less accustomed. Do not 
worry, France is used to welcome people (first tourist world destination, 
24 European countries in direct access for us).

Just something when relating with our officials (and with French at large) 
we treat everyone equal in front of Law and common sense. Anyone asking for 
a waiver will not benefit no more even from common concerted understanding. 
Do not ask for a waiver: propose a change for everyone or explain your need.

5. "U.S. passport holders, and in fact citizens of most developed 
countries, do not need a visa to enter France to attend IETF63." A Visa is 
not a way to filter people out (except foes and we are not currently 
officially at war with the USA). A visa is the way to welcome them in the 
European administrative environment. If we have enough administrative ties 
(technical or/and cultural) with their administration of origin, or if we 
do not expect them to need much (short stay, simple visit) we do not need 
them.
jfc

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I received several private mails about Visa, French culture, Officials,
etc. I will address them here for common benefit.<br><br>
I copy this mail for information to the Chair of ISOC France (but do not
expect help from him before this WE as we organise EGENI 2005 this Friday
(<a href="http://egeni.org/" eudora="autourl">http://egeni.org</a>). I
also copy in Bcc a representative of France Telecom who will pass it to
the proper person in charge (I do not have her mail here) and several
officials and private persons. If they want to say more they may send a
mail to Brian Carpenter (IETF Chair).<br>
&nbsp; <br>
1. I am no French official. Please check with Embassy or consulates.
<a href="http://www.diplomatie.fr/venir/visas/" eudora="autourl">
http://www.diplomatie.fr/venir/visas/</a>. <br><br>
2. I repeat what Brian said for a letter when needed.
<a href="http://www.ietf.org/meetings/invite_letter.html" eudora="autourl">
http://www.ietf.org/meetings/invite_letter.html<br><br>
</a>3. &quot;The French and English versions of this page (French site
above) are misleading as they do not provide a &quot;attending scientific
meeting&quot; category -- and thus any choices that most people would
take will lead them to conclude a visa is required for
IETF63&quot;.<br><br>
As I said before chose &quot;<b>business trip</b>&quot;.<br><br>
This Menu is not about everything, but about special cases. Default is
business, whatever your business can be. In quoted cases you need a Visa
to document your every days rights. This is a detail which tells a lot
about the French/American cultural controversies we may have over IETF
Drafts: please remember our culture is logic Liberty: whatever is not
forbidden is not only permitted, but free and can be helped. Let be
realistic if your intents are bad would you chose &quot;Bombing&quot;?
Just think of IETF63 as the political caucus some here keep telling it
is.<br><br>
4. &quot;Americans can be particularly stupid when it comes to such
things as the conditions for entering other countries.&quot; I do not
think so, but only 16% of them have a passport, so they are globally less
accustomed. Do not worry, France is used to welcome people (first tourist
world destination, 24 European countries in direct access for us).
<br><br>
Just something when relating with our officials (and with French at
large) we treat everyone equal in front of Law and common sense. Anyone
asking for a waiver will not benefit no more even from common concerted
understanding. Do not ask for a waiver: propose a change for everyone or
explain your need.<br><br>
5. &quot;U.S. passport holders, and in fact citizens of most developed
countries, do not need a visa to enter France to attend IETF63.&quot; A
Visa is not a way to filter people out (except foes and we are not
currently officially at war with the USA). A visa is the way to welcome
them in the European administrative environment. If we have enough
administrative ties (technical or/and cultural) with their administration
of origin, or if we do not expect them to need much (short stay, simple
visit) we do not need them. <br>
jfc<br>
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