Return-Path: Received: from murder ([unix socket]) by eikenes.alvestrand.no (Cyrus v2.2.8-Mandrake-RPM-2.2.8-4.2.101mdk) with LMTPA; Tue, 09 Aug 2005 15:30:45 +0200 X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 Received: from localhost (eikenes.alvestrand.no [127.0.0.1]) by eikenes.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E5C53200CE for ; Tue, 9 Aug 2005 15:30:45 +0200 (CEST) Received: from eikenes.alvestrand.no ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (eikenes.alvestrand.no [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 22980-04 for ; Tue, 9 Aug 2005 15:30:39 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: domain auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.4.8 Received: from megatron.ietf.org (megatron.ietf.org [132.151.6.71]) by eikenes.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id E20793200AB for ; Tue, 9 Aug 2005 15:30:36 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E2UA9-0005b7-GO; Tue, 09 Aug 2005 09:29:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E2UA4-0005ag-0U for ietf@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 09 Aug 2005 09:28:58 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA06193 for ; Tue, 9 Aug 2005 09:28:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from montage.altserver.com ([63.247.74.122]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1E2Uhx-0007e1-S5 for ietf@ietf.org; Tue, 09 Aug 2005 10:03:59 -0400 Received: from ver78-2-82-241-91-24.fbx.proxad.net ([82.241.91.24] helo=jfc.afrac.org) by montage.altserver.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.44) id 1E2U9u-0002HQ-Rh; Tue, 09 Aug 2005 06:28:47 -0700 Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.2.20050809151306.04cd9cc0@mail.jefsey.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Tue, 09 Aug 2005 15:20:46 +0200 To: Brian E Carpenter , ietf@ietf.org From: "JFC (Jefsey) Morfin" In-Reply-To: <42F89F9F.5070008@zurich.ibm.com> References: <20050804050502.GB6084@sbrim-wxp01> <42F89F9F.5070008@zurich.ibm.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - montage.altserver.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - jefsey.com X-Scan-Signature: 79899194edc4f33a41f49410777972f8 Cc: Subject: Re: "The IETF has difficulty solving complex problems" X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF-Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ietf-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ietf-bounces@ietf.org X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at alvestrand.no At 14:20 09/08/2005, Brian E Carpenter wrote: >without needing an over-arching scalablity framework or robustness framework. This is what I call the "mono" default architectural parametering of the Internet. The architecture permits applications to scale. The architecture could scale. But the architecture scalling is not tested and even mudded over the RFCs. Examples: one class, one language, one IPv6 space, etc. This leads to a robust system, but it more and more perceived as rustic. And the necessary evolution is carried by grassroots process (VoIP, NATs, P2P, middleboxes, DNS balkanisation, etc.). Is that good overall. Maybe because it gives a common example? It worked until now ... I am not sure that sometime it will not anymore. No more idea of when as when the Gulf Steam will stop. But the impact may be even worse? jfc _______________________________________________ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf